Berlin lorry attack

DLM

Alnico said:

Glad to hear it man.
Thanks for letting us know.
I'm still just lost for words.

Yeah, I thought of @Loobs right away, too. Just had a look at a map of exactly where it took place. I know that spot so well, I used to regularly stand just the other side of the church and watch the street performance troupe, Berlin Skills. They are awesome: http://www.berlinskillz.de/

BigBearKris

Fretwired said:

BigBearKris said:

They've just confirmed that the truck was stolen from Poland and Polish driver got killed - body has been found in the lorry. If that's true it can be a spark for already very tense situation within Polish nationalists. 
Suspect was registered as a refugee on February this year.

How do you know? Poor press reporting with the exception of the Times - the perpetrator is still at large. The German police arrested a Pakistani national but have since confirmed he has nothing to do with it.

The objective of attacks like these is to spark a holy war between Muslims and Christians - sow fear, division and hatred throughout Europe. We should resist this and be careful what we say online as it will only incentivise others to do something similar and embolden the right which will look to make political capital and may also decide to retaliate.

What's needed are moderate voices and calm, especially online. Trust Farage to jump in with his size 12 boots - his views are not what we need.

Our thoughts should be with those who died needlessly whilst out enjoying themselves. RIP.

No worries mate, it was reported on BBC news this morning. Since then they've changed their report. I'm the last one to judge - so there was no intention from my side to blame refugee for the crime. I'm hoping it actually won't be one as we all know that it could spark a series of outbursts of anger towards them/any other immigrants.
I've seen some footage from Bastille Day attack and I'm dreading to even read more about this one as it's just a horrible, horrible act of terror.

BigBearKris

blobb said:

More and more I become convinced of how great God is.

What's the point of that comment? Start a pointless shitstorm again?

Cirrus

BigBearKris said:

blobb said:

More and more I become convinced of how great God is.

What's the point of that comment? Start a pointless shitstorm again?

I read it as a wry joke at the expense of religious extremists, which made me chuckle in a sad sort of way.

Cirrus

As for the Berlin attack, absolutely terrible and very sad, tragic that innocent people can be killed by nutcases and not something I think is going to stop any time soon unfortunately. Agree with @ICBM as always - you just need to keep on living your life as before.

HAL9000

ICBM said:

Placidcasual79 said:

Terrible news. So shocking. To think innocent people out doing Christmas shopping and not coming home...... so sad. These tragedies are becoming so common. Its important not to become complacent or desensitised.  

But equally it's important not to let them change our way of life. That's what they want.

But it's already changed our way of life. I can't go to the airport without getting my shoes x-rayed and my aftershave confiscated. I have to have my bags searched at museums and gigs etc. I can't go into town without my every move being recorded on CCTV, and now the Welsh ambulance service wants to be able to check my browsing history.

TheBlueWolf

Good to know that forumites who might have been in the vicinity are safe and well.

Casting blanket judgement on society based on the actions of a tiny minority spreads just as much, if not *more* fear than the terrorists themselves so IMHO it's best if nobody does. 

blobb

Cirrus said:

BigBearKris said:

blobb said:

More and more I become convinced of how great God is.

What's the point of that comment? Start a pointless shitstorm again?

I read it as a wry joke at the expense of religious extremists, which made me chuckle in a sad sort of way.

^ yes, the second one ^. It could be the first one, but you really don't want to get me started on that.

CabbageCat

TheBlueWolf said:

Casting blanket judgement on society based on the actions of a tiny minority spreads just as much, if not *more* fear than the terrorists themselves so IMHO it's best if nobody does. 

Immeasurably more. If this had been a drunk driver in Berlin very few of us would be aware of it, let alone mention it. If the world learned to shut up about this shit and just let the people involved investigate/grieve/die there would be significantly less hate and fear in the world.

Personally, I genuinely feel that less hate and fear is a good thing but I suspect that there are lots of people, including some on the forum, who would disagree with that if they were honest with themselves.

BigBearKris

CabbageCat said:

TheBlueWolf said:

Casting blanket judgement on society based on the actions of a tiny minority spreads just as much, if not *more* fear than the terrorists themselves so IMHO it's best if nobody does. 

 If the world learned to shut up about this shit and just let the people involved investigate/grieve/die there would be significantly less hate and fear in the world.

That's right.
The whole point of those attacks being successful is that they get worldwide attention which spreads terror. Which is what they want.
Like ICBM said before - the only way to react is to carry on doing what we normally do.

Garthy

CabbageCat said:

Placidcasual79 said:

I find it really hard to keep my faith in the inherent decency of human beings in the face of news like this and the majority of sh*t we've had to wade through in recent years......


In fact thinking on it - I was going to say 'the sh*t we've had to wade through in the last year' -  but that's not really right is it? I am 36 - seems to me things have been going down hill since 9/11?


That's probably wrong as well though..... are we hard wired for crappy behaviour.....

Try to get some perspective. Sure, it's tragic but in the same day there would have been many, many more deaths from construction industry accidents or drug use or asthma attacks.

There are 7 billion people in the world - if you let the actions of one of them adjust your perception of humanity by more than a three-and-a-half-billionth then you are screwing up the world as you see it more than that guy is.

And you wonder why the silent right vote Tory/Brexit/Trump.... Germany has elections next year and the people who you disagree with will keep their heads down and their mouths shut while social media virtue signallers put a German flag filter over their profile pictures with a right on message - right up until they shuffle into the polling booth and put an X in the box of a right wing party then with heads bowed they will scuffle home to watch the news report of shock defeat of Merkel while social media goes into meltdown again.

Loobs

Gassage said:

Loobs said:

Yo, I'm fine, thanks @Gassage ;;;

I was in the cinema last night when it happened and had about 25 whatsapps asking if I was ok, my girlfriend too. We knew immediately something bad had happened. 

I was also working right opposite the site this morning, was able to look down on it from a balcony. The whole world's press is there. 

I'm not sure I could look. Honestly.

You couldn't see anything horrible, if that's what you mean. They had already pretty much cleared it up by the time I got there this morning at 8am. 

Evilmags

Garthy said:

CabbageCat said:

Placidcasual79 said:

I find it really hard to keep my faith in the inherent decency of human beings in the face of news like this and the majority of sh*t we've had to wade through in recent years......


In fact thinking on it - I was going to say 'the sh*t we've had to wade through in the last year' -  but that's not really right is it? I am 36 - seems to me things have been going down hill since 9/11?


That's probably wrong as well though..... are we hard wired for crappy behaviour.....

Try to get some perspective. Sure, it's tragic but in the same day there would have been many, many more deaths from construction industry accidents or drug use or asthma attacks.

There are 7 billion people in the world - if you let the actions of one of them adjust your perception of humanity by more than a three-and-a-half-billionth then you are screwing up the world as you see it more than that guy is.

And you wonder why the silent right vote Tory/Brexit/Trump.... Germany has elections next year and the people who you disagree with will keep their heads down and their mouths shut while social media virtue signallers put a German flag filter over their profile pictures with a right on message - right up until they shuffle into the polling booth and put an X in the box of a right wing party then with heads bowed they will scuffle home to watch the news report of shock defeat of Merkel while social media goes into meltdown again.

Even if she wins, she will lose a LOT of trust as she is hiding a very large banking bailout for German banks. I still think Germany has to much war guilt to vote in anyone really nasty though. France on the other hand is a completely different matter. I´m almost in agreement with @fretmeister as to Le Penn´s chances of winning the presidential elections, and the reasons are fairly simple. Merkel just let over a million people from Middle Eastern war zone into Europe. These people´s most common second language is French so many will end up in France. Yet the French government had no say in the matter. France is far more socially conservative than the UK and is Europe´s only other military power. If that happens then all bets for the whole EU project are off. 

Axe_meister

Berlin is very close to home for me, as my Great Grandfather was Mayor of Berlin during the Blockade in the 50s (Ernst Reuter).
He would be rolling in his grave that humanity is forgetting the lessons of the past.

ToneControl

HAL9000 said:

ICBM said:

Placidcasual79 said:

Terrible news. So shocking. To think innocent people out doing Christmas shopping and not coming home...... so sad. These tragedies are becoming so common. Its important not to become complacent or desensitised.  

But equally it's important not to let them change our way of life. That's what they want.

But it's already changed our way of life. I can't go to the airport without getting my shoes x-rayed and my aftershave confiscated. I have to have my bags searched at museums and gigs etc. I can't go into town without my every move being recorded on CCTV, and now the Welsh ambulance service wants to be able to check my browsing history.

check your home browsing history?

ToneControl

Evilmags said:

Garthy said:

CabbageCat said:

Placidcasual79 said:

I find it really hard to keep my faith in the inherent decency of human beings in the face of news like this and the majority of sh*t we've had to wade through in recent years......


In fact thinking on it - I was going to say 'the sh*t we've had to wade through in the last year' -  but that's not really right is it? I am 36 - seems to me things have been going down hill since 9/11?


That's probably wrong as well though..... are we hard wired for crappy behaviour.....

Try to get some perspective. Sure, it's tragic but in the same day there would have been many, many more deaths from construction industry accidents or drug use or asthma attacks.

There are 7 billion people in the world - if you let the actions of one of them adjust your perception of humanity by more than a three-and-a-half-billionth then you are screwing up the world as you see it more than that guy is.

And you wonder why the silent right vote Tory/Brexit/Trump.... Germany has elections next year and the people who you disagree with will keep their heads down and their mouths shut while social media virtue signallers put a German flag filter over their profile pictures with a right on message - right up until they shuffle into the polling booth and put an X in the box of a right wing party then with heads bowed they will scuffle home to watch the news report of shock defeat of Merkel while social media goes into meltdown again.

Even if she wins, she will lose a LOT of trust as she is hiding a very large banking bailout for German banks. I still think Germany has to much war guilt to vote in anyone really nasty though. France on the other hand is a completely different matter. I´m almost in agreement with @fretmeister as to Le Penn´s chances of winning the presidential elections, and the reasons are fairly simple. Merkel just let over a million people from Middle Eastern war zone into Europe. These people´s most common second language is French so many will end up in France. Yet the French government had no say in the matter. France is far more socially conservative than the UK and is Europe´s only other military power. If that happens then all bets for the whole EU project are off. 

I thought the East Germans  didn't share the war-guilt

Evilmags

Axe_meister said:

Berlin is very close to home for me, as my Great Grandfather was Mayor of Berlin during the Blockade in the 50s (Ernst Reuter).
He would be rolling in his grave that humanity is forgetting the lessons of the past.

If History was taught properly, I suspect we´d see less of this. Knowing what happened and understanding what happened are very different things, and incidents like this will clearly provoke people from the knuckle dragging segments of society. Germany has too much economic power and unbalances Europe and the EU. It is not a coincidence that this makes it a target. Add to that the fact that it´s police, military apparatus and security services are weak for historical reasons and they have a problem.

As much as Farage gets criticized for stating the obvious, letting over a million people into your country without any screening when they are fleeing a war zone is a risk. 0.1% of a million people can cause a lot of havoc. 1% of a million people is a standing army. And Merkel forced this upon the rest of Europe. The wrongness and the rightness of her decision is not the point here. The point is that nobody in any of the 27 countries that didn´t have an opportunity to vote for her had a say in the matter. 

Rocker

Thanks to @fretmeister for his explanation of the free Legal Aid. As usual the knee jerk reactions to my post completely missed my point. The presumption of innocence is part of our democracy. Assuming the man arrested is automatically guilty is not justice as we deem it. The man arrested might be the Lorry driver but only the Courts can decide that. The last thing we need is another miscarriage of justice.

Babones

The suspect has been released due to lack of evidence.

Fretwired

Babones said:

The suspect has been released due to lack of evidence.

We don't even know 100 per cent whether the perpetrator is a migrant yet FB, Twitter and forums have all jumped on the bandwagon of blaming Merkel's migrant policy.