Dodgy electricity/wiring noise issues - what to do?

imalrightjack

Happy new year all,

Apologies if this isn't the correct part of the forum to use.  It relates to my guitars, so...

Despite having lived in the same house for ten years, it's only recently that I've begun to really think I have a problem with my electricity/wiring.  It's an 1860s cottage and, I suspect, hasn't been properly rewired for some time - or, if it has (based on the standard of other jobs that have been done), it was probably not done very well.  In the time I've lived here, I've spent a lot of time recording directly into Logic, using amplifiers at home only at quiet levels, and don't feel like I've been plagued with problems but do have a sense of the penny finally dropping. I suspect if I look back through my posts, I'll find a number which relate to noisy guitars (I know I posted about my Mesa Boogie Mark V: 25 a month or so back).

Anyway, the long and short of it is that I've taken the time to lug the amp around the house and connect it up to different sockets and have found that every one produces the same results: the amp is noisy, especially on channel two.  It isn't just this amp though, I've also hooked up a Laney Ironheart 15 head and it suffers similarly.  Observations were that when I touch the metal knobs on the Mesa when it's switched on, you can hear that noise interference is worse and when touching the sides of my pickups it also gets worse.

Before I go ringing electricians, can anybody advise me on what the actual problem might be - and if it's likely as drastic as requiring rewiring?

Any advice welcome.

Thanks.

ICBM

If the noise gets worse rather than better when touching amp knobs or metal guitar parts it sounds like your whole house is not earthed properly, so I would suggest that actually the first thing you need to do is get in touch with an electrician.

A major problem is that in the past, the electrical earth was quite often connected to the water main - this was perfect, when the water pipes were made of metal… but modern mains water piping is made from plastic, so if yours has been replaced at any time in the past twenty to thirty years this may be the cause. If so, you will need an earth spike fitting.

If it's not that - or even if it is, as well - are you near overhead power lines? If so your body may be acting as an aerial and picking up noise that way.

imalrightjack

Thanks, @ICBM - I'll get onto it then!  I suspect that could be the case.

There's a telegraph pole not far from the house with a line leading directly to the wall next to my music room!

Barney

I would get in touch with an electrician ..cos it sounds like its a earth issue....or you can buy plug in testers that you plug into the socket and it will tell you iff a earth is missing or crossed polarity ect..

Rabs

It sounds to me like the guitar isn't grounded properly...  That's the sort of symptom you describe..  When a guitar isn't grounded properly that's exactly what happens. Theres more noise when you touch any metal part of the guitar where as if its grounded properly there will be hum when not touching the guitar and it goes away or gets quieter when you touch a string or whatever.

I would open the back up and have a wiggle on the joints and see if any are loose.... that would be the first thing to check.

imalrightjack

@Barney I'll have a look, thanks. 

@Rab, I've tried a bunch of guitars. All the same. Definitely not that. 

Rabs

imalrightjack said:

@Barney I'll have a look, thanks. 

@Rab, I've tried a bunch of guitars. All the same. Definitely not that. 

Hmm fair enough...  Cant help much more than that apart from I know that stuff like dimmer switches and laptops and things like that can interfere with the signal....  But as you say if the wiring is old it may be worth getting checked out regardless..

Barney

imalrightjack said:

@Barney I'll have a look, thanks. 

@Rab, I've tried a bunch of guitars. All the same. Definitely not that. 

Just looked on ebay ...they are like £10  ...probably get them at the electrical supplier as well..might be worth doing before you call out a electrician cos the call out could be high..they are a handy thing for checking all house sockets .. and cooker socket .. even band extension leads ect ....basically where you plug anything in..

boogieman

The wire coming from the telegraph pole is likely to be just the phone. That's at 50v DC and it's not going to cause buzzing.

I agree with ICBM, I reckon it's far more likely to be an earthing issue on the mains. A Martindale type tester (like Barney suggested) will give you a rough indication if there's any problems but it really won't pin down specific earth issues, edit: unless the earth is completely missing! Seeing as how it's a cottage with old wiring you might find you don't have a proper electricity board supplied earth... it could just be hooked up to an earth spike driven into the ground outside and these can degrade/corrode with time. Tbh I think it's worth getting a sparky to have a look. Be prepared to get lots of teeth sucking and the suggestion of a full house rewire though. 

imalrightjack

Is this what I need? 
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01D2SGG90/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_cKKAyb4EGM0P5

I'm going to use my British Gas Homecare to see if they'll test it. Worth trying. 

Thanks for all comments. 

boogieman

Yup that'll ^ do the job.

Good luck with getting BG to test things, worth a try I suppose but I think that's more for sorting emergencies than anything else. 

imalrightjack

Thanks, @boogieman - I'm banking on good faith

BigMonka

@imalrightjack ; as someone else has already mentioned there could be things in your house making noise like dimmers, fridges, and pc equipment. So it might be worth turning off absolutely everything in the house (at the consumer unit is easiest) except your amp into one socket. That'll help determine whether it's something inside causing the interference.

Barney

I think its the utilities responsibility iff it a high reading on your intake ..at least it is in our area...iff they supply the earth either by TNS or TNCS and it is high ...you you can only test this with a proper tester and would need a electrician.... they should get it down to a acceptable level..... 
Iff its a TT system...earth rod ...i think thats your responsibility...

BigMonka

boogieman said:
Seeing as how it's a cottage with old wiring you might find you don't have a proper electricity board supplied earth... it could just be hooked up to an earth spike driven into the ground outside and these can degrade/corrode with time. 

@imalrightjack if you post a picture of the incoming cable into your electricity meter&fuse we should be able to tell whether or not it's got this type of earthing arrangement (it's quite likely in rural properties)

imalrightjack

Does this help?

https://s30.postimg.org/soff8l6tt/20170102_133311.jpg

Barney

imalrightjack said:

Does this help?

https://s30.postimg.org/soff8l6tt/20170102_133311.jpg

Thats TNCS...the consumer unit has rcd protection ..do you have any paperwork ...it will tell you the reading at the intake at the time .. things could alter though ....it should be below .35 ohms

imalrightjack

No paperwork that I'm aware of. What's TNCS, @Barney? ;

professorben

imalrightjack said:

No paperwork that I'm aware of. What's TNCS, @Barney? ;;

It's where the protective 'sheath' ( steel wires around the cable) on the incoming cable, is used as the means of earthing the installation.
T= Earth or Terre 
N= Neutral
C= combined 
S= Sheath or Shared

so it's an earthing system where the neutral and earth are combined utilising the sheath.

boogieman

professorben said:

imalrightjack said:

No paperwork that I'm aware of. What's TNCS, @Barney? ;

It's where the protective 'sheath' ( steel wires around the cable) on the incoming cable, is used as the means of earthing the installation.

Yup, basically the supply company give you the earth as part of the incoming wiring. It's connected to the neutral at the supply point.

imalrightjack

So it sounds like it isn't likely an earth issue?