Any one been converted?

digitalscream

Teetonetal said:

Imo sound quality is no longer an issue. It's all about the type of sound and feature requirements you have.

That said, you need to get your expectations right when using any of them. What they give you is the sound of a mic'd up amp. The touch feel and dynamics is all there but if you are yearning for the sound your ear hears direct from a speaker you might be dissapointed.

Get your head around that and the possibilities offered by modelling are extreme. If lost all my gear and could only buy 1 thing back? It would be my helix.

That's true (about the sound), assuming you run them full-range with all the modelling turned on. When I used the Eleven Rack into a power amp and a real cab, it was honestly indistinguishable from a real amp.

As you say, though, the benefits of modelling aren't really that you can have 100 amps in one little box, but rather that you can do stuff which is impossible (within practical bounds) in the real world.

Teetonetal

I would also add that helix is not designed to do seemed patch changing. Snapshots cover that for all but extreme use. There is plenty of dsp available to create a two amp rig with multiple fx in 1 patch. Imo snapshots are more powerful. 

Worst case would be to setup 1 patch per song.. each with multiple snapshots inside. It's just a more flexible way of doing the same thing.

Jonathanthomas83

@Wazmeister can the FX8 get a good approximation of what the DIG can do (and also it's extreme long atmospheric settings)? How is the tape echo and digital delay on there?

John_A

I bought a Helix 6 months ago, have sold nearly all my amps and pedals, and the ones that remain haven't been used since I got the Helix.  I use a single patch, Fender Twin for clean, Engl for varying levels of dirt and a bunch of pedals for 95% or our set, only use a different patch for odd things like U2 songs.  Bottom line is my live set-up is quicker, I'm not carrying heavy amps around and most importantly it sounds better.  Not just as good, but better, certainly out front where it matters

fretmeister

gearaddict said:

fretmeister said:

If you load a total new patch then there is a pause.

But instead you use Snapshots...

Hmm...odd that the Line6 stuff seems to have this when other units don't. Even the old Boss GT8 was seamless. I'll check out the manual to see how the snapshot thing works...sounds slightly fiddly but I guess you get used to it.

Has anyone compared the GSP1101 with the new batch of modellers? I guess for £300 there's bound to be a jump in quality but I wonder how much. I read that if you replace the stock cabinets with the IR ones then it makes a big difference to the modelled sounds. I think I heard something similar about the Kemper.

The Line 6 guys explained it all a little while ago.

The up to date generation of amp models (the software itself) are so large that to make it seamless between patches would need another DSP Core - just to do the switching, and that in turn would significantly increase the price. It's the removal and loading process from 1 patch to the next that causes a delay.

The Digitech has 2 cores - 1 for the sounds (with much smaller file sizes) and 1 for the switching. The 2nd one doesn't do anything except making the switching seamless.

This sort of thing will only get worse until the makers put in additional DSP purely for switching.

However - there was an interesting chat on the L6 forums a while ago, that at some point the file sizes might be so large that a player would have to pre-load the next set just before they are needed.

Snapshots are basically what Fractal called Scenes. They allow large changes within a patch itself. So you load a patch with everything you need and then you don't need to change patches.

It's not fiddly - but it is powerful. You can set it up for 1 row of pedals and 1 row of Snapshots, for example (that's how I do it) - and an individual stomp can change loads of parameters.

If you like a Plexi with an OCD pedal, but for solos you want to up mids, and increase the just the drive on the OCD - then you can have 1 press doing that. You can still map the OCD to another switch as well to turn that off separately if you want.

For guitar use I have 3 snap shots of Clean, Crunch, Filth. Those are on the top row. On the bottom row I have Phaser, Tubescreamer (also comes on automatically with the Filth), Delay, Solo Boost (A volume block at the end of the chain - no extra drive so I can use it on any of the 3 channels). And I've got the wah set up too.


On bass I have the 2 paths set up separately to run 2 amps at once all the time. Each goes to their own output. I set up one as the low end. Super clean, loads of compression, not much treble. The other path is for drive and FX that can then be layered on top. The wah toe-switch turns on the wah and an extra fuzz pedal at the same time for that Cliff Burton abrasive tone.


The Helix UI is the best I've seen so far. It's almost impossible to get lost with it. In the box you get a big print starter guide and a USB Stick with the full manual on it. I've never looked at the manual. If you can use a smart phone or ipad, then you'd be fine.

John_A

Snapshots IMO also sound better in the context of a gig as it's the same rig with different settings rather than swapping your whole rig mid-song.  As I said, I use one preset for most of our set which covers some quite diverse styles, and my Helix set-up still sounds like me (for good or bad)

fretmeister

that's true enough.

I've seen some shows, like Metallica, when the cleans are JC120 and the drive is Dual Recs. Sometimes it works very well, but in others it can be quite jarring.

My Zakk Wylde type patch is all the modded 2204 with different settings. I do like that.

TTBZ

That sounds really good @fretmeister , I'd want to set it up in a similar way - clean, dirty rhythm and solo amp snapshots, then add some extra "stompboxes" on spare footswitches which can go on whichever amp snapshot I have selected at the time. Could do a different patch set up the same but with a different amp if I fancied playing a different genre.. This thread is definitely food for thought!

Jonathanthomas83

Anyone with an FX8 (or AXE) able to confirm if I can put chorus on just one side (left or right) of a stereo delay signal using the editor?

fretmeister

My bass patches have multiple versions. The fx are all the same but the amps are different.

My dedicated Cliff Burton Patch uses the amp he did - the Mesa 400. But I've also done a version with the GK800, and of course the FX sound very different with such a different amp.

Dead easy to pick the right amp for a particular room though, just have a few available.

I also have the cab sims on a switch, so if I'm using a power amp and bass cabs I can turn off the model cabs, but if it's PA use then turn them on.

I haven't yet done the routing of the 1/4 outs to a power amp (no cab models) and the XLR to PA (with cab models) at the same time

Vaiai

TTBZ said:

That sounds really good @fretmeister , I'd want to set it up in a similar way - clean, dirty rhythm and solo amp snapshots, then add some extra "stompboxes" on spare footswitches which can go on whichever amp snapshot I have selected at the time. Could do a different patch set up the same but with a different amp if I fancied playing a different genre.. This thread is definitely food for thought!

The way @fretmeister has explained the Helix setup is almost exactly how I use my Fractal FX8 - I just can't gel with the amp modelling on any unit ( I had a Kemper too) so this is my best of both worlds - it's really just for gigging tho. For home I just use a wee practice amp.
Regarding snapshots/scenes - these are fantastic - I have 4 scenes set up on the bottom 4 buttons and the top 4 are 4 of the 8 effects in that patch which I can switch on and off manually like a normal pedalboard.

If I was looking now I'd go Helix and try to get used to the amps or at the worst go 4CM and still use my real amp and use the Helix as an FX board as I do now.

The screenshots above showing the controls of each are a bit unfair as the Fractal stuff CAN dive deep on parameters but the main page  of each effect has most of the usual knobs and settings and is not as complex as it looks.

The thing that puts me off all the modelling is you seem to need to put in a fair bit of effort and work and try custom IR's etc, then, ideally, you need FRFR speakers and potentially IEM etc...it all just seems to add up and be more complex.

The main thing is, it's a journey, and can be great fun but also infuriating! I took the FX8 as that's what came up when I was looking for a trade - if it had been a Helix I'd no doubt have gone with that too. Main thing to take from this is, I still have my FX8 - that's the longest a multi FX has lasted in my rig lol. Unity gain, scenes, delay spillover, controlling parameters with Expression pedal etc all add up to a fantastic unit.

fretmeister

I don't think you can go wrong with any of the new generation units. they are all excellent.

I've never used mine with custom IR or FRFR. Stock cab models for headphones or recording, or no cab models at all and into a power amp and a proper cab for everything else.

RandallFlagg

It's interesting that Line 6 Helix appears to have rescued their reputation. I agree with a comment above, the quality of amp and effect modelling is now sufficiently and equally high across the top tier units (Helix/Kemper/Axe) it now comes down to what you want from your chosen device and how you want to interact with it. Plus if IR capture or amp profiling is your thing then the Kemper/Axe has that covered too.

We are spoilt for choice now and Line 6 have finally joined the top tier.

gearaddict

Slartibartfarst42 said:

...I still couldn't afford an Axe-FX but I did come across the Atomic AmpliFire and again, decided to take a chance. Wow!!! I'd been impressed with the AMP1 but this was on a whole new level with a good range of amp models that were highly convincing and the same could be said of the onboard effects.

Interesting...I've seen these around but didn't know much about them. Look good though, and a lot less money than the Helix...

TTBZ

Just been watching more videos on youtube, and I'm geting more convinced i need one.. there's a guy called Matt Chalk who is getting some really awesome recorded tones. Someone has recreated angus' rig on the helix and it sounds awesome as well. Looks like everyone with the best sounds is using the ownhammer IRs. Dammit I knew reading this thread would give me GAS haha.

Roland

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Anyone with an FX8 (or AXE) able to confirm if I can put chorus on just one side (left or right) of a stereo delay signal using the editor?

Yes, and there are a couple of ways of doing it, depending on exactly what you are trying to achieve. Many effects blocks allow you to choose whether their input signal is left, right or stereo. There's also a Balance parameter which determines how the output is split between left and right channels. 

NelsonP

Reporting back.

Tried a bunch of stuff. Katana best of the modelling amps in my opinion, but sounds boss-y (compressed, flat, digital). 100w head is pretty cool with its built in speaker. A kind of thr on steroids.

Loved the tones of the atomic amplifire initially, but a/b'd it vs my pod xt and realised the clean tones were better on the pod(!) I guess you may be able to improve it with tweaking but tbh who can be arsed with that.

Helix seems to be what everyone recommends, but £1,300 is too much.

I want a hardware unit so I guess I'll just wait until line 6 decide to replace the firehawk/hd500x. A mini helix at around £5-700 would do the trick, please.

longshins

Another thumbs up for the GSP1101 here, with proper impulse responses it sounds great, the control 2 floorboard is well thought out too. 

olafgarten

I don't have anything as high end but I'm happy with my Zoom G5 through Studio Monitors. I wouldn't mind using it live but would only use the effects. I haven't noticed any switching delay but there is no delay/reverb spillover.

What I love about it is that I can have an almost perfect approximation of any effect I want running into a good approximation of a large selection of amps. The only thing it doesn't do is oscillate when you run 2 fuzzes in a row.

mr-mac

The digitech has two cores but not true second only does switching. 2nd one originally only did some blending when switching. But in c63 both cores are used. It's why you can now load third party IR's and other stuff. The digitech processor of course was a he spoke chip that had loads more power than most from same era. Heard about 400x what a lot of off shelf parts had (which a lot of companies had to use). I think its still a very compelling unit (my dream setup would be gsp into a 2notes cab modelling unit).  on GSP user group had quite a few try helix and their other new one and other units and an awfy lot come back to GSP. From those that have axefx units they often say out of box gsp's modelling can sound better but due to all the settings if your willing to play with it to make it sound exactly how you want it it will surpass gsp. That's a fair old compliment I'd say and have no plans to move off GSP as my experience with other modellers had me ready to give up on flexability and go back to analogue.