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Considering Helix and goodbye valve amp!

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  • simonksimonk Frets: 1467
    JonHosker said:
    Think I am Helix bound - helpful stuff here
    Wait for the Akai, I am. At least to give them a fair comparison.
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  • TTBZTTBZ Frets: 2873
    edited January 2017
    simonk said:
    JonHosker said:
    Think I am Helix bound - helpful stuff here
    Wait for the Akai, I am. At least to give them a fair comparison.
    Likewise. The Akai is much more in my price range anyway! Though from what I've heard of the 11 Rack and Helix on youtube I much prefer the sounds of the Helix but I can only find heavier clips from the former so it's hard to make a good comparison from that. I'm fairly convinced I'd be happy with the Helix for my mid gain marshally rock sounds having seen all the nice patch demos on YT and it sounds great for high gain metal as well.
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  • sweepysweepy Frets: 4159
    It is annoying that most YT vids concentrate on the heavier tones and not those "edge of breakup" sounds that are hardest to achieve consistently. Having owned the Helix and now happily pottering around with my Axe-Fx, I'd still be interested to try the Akai out of curiosity.
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  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Frets: 13929
    edited January 2017
    Sporky said:

    Each to their own - there's also the engineer in me which says it's better to solve the actual problem than to implement a workaround as a "feature"
    Aye - I do get that. But the engineer in me says "why waste half your DSP on spillover when you could use it to have better models, or more effect blocks... Horses and roundabouts. What'd be nice is having the choice - only use one path on the Helix and get gapless and spillover, or use both for the extra processing.

    This is true. However...as a real-world example from what I was planning when I still had a band: you're the only guitarist in a band and you want to run in stereo to fill the sound out. You want one amp for your clean with stereo delay, two for your rhythm with a different stereo delay (switchable in/out) and one or two for your lead sound with stereo delay, with spillover on all of them. With the Helix solution, you're limited on the lead sound to one amp (only four signal paths), and with that many amp models running you'll hit a DSP limit pretty quickly (from what I've read in the monstrous Helix thread).

    Ironically, all of this is do-able with a single amp using different patches on the GSP1101, which is vastly underpowered compared to any of the big-hitters. With the way it's configured, I'm guessing that delays are rendered ahead in the audio pipeline...which is something I'm surprised none of the big names do with their units. It requires extra DSP power yes (you're effectively rendering faster than real-time), but nowhere near as much as the (assumed) Headrush solution and is a lot more solid than the Helix approach.
    Try 2 Helix then!  It's lot less hassle than 5 valve amp rigs and seperate effects chains on each.


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  • TTBZ said:
    simonk said:
    JonHosker said:
    Think I am Helix bound - helpful stuff here
    Wait for the Akai, I am. At least to give them a fair comparison.
    Likewise. The Akai is much more in my price range anyway! Though from what I've heard of the 11 Rack and Helix on youtube I much prefer the sounds of the Helix but I can only find heavier clips from the former so it's hard to make a good comparison from that. I'm fairly convinced I'd be happy with the Helix for my mid gain marshally rock sounds having seen all the nice patch demos on YT and it sounds great for high gain metal as well.
    You'd be surprised, actually. Using the Eleven Rack with impulses instead of the built-in cab models, it sounded much closer to the real thing.

    Remember, the Headrush has an updated version of the Eleven modelling (the one that comes with Pro Tools HD), so it's not directly comparable to the old 11R's sounds. From what I hear, the HD version has a much better feel to it.
    <space for hire>
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  • Sporky said:

    Each to their own - there's also the engineer in me which says it's better to solve the actual problem than to implement a workaround as a "feature"
    Aye - I do get that. But the engineer in me says "why waste half your DSP on spillover when you could use it to have better models, or more effect blocks... Horses and roundabouts. What'd be nice is having the choice - only use one path on the Helix and get gapless and spillover, or use both for the extra processing.

    This is true. However...as a real-world example from what I was planning when I still had a band: you're the only guitarist in a band and you want to run in stereo to fill the sound out. You want one amp for your clean with stereo delay, two for your rhythm with a different stereo delay (switchable in/out) and one or two for your lead sound with stereo delay, with spillover on all of them. With the Helix solution, you're limited on the lead sound to one amp (only four signal paths), and with that many amp models running you'll hit a DSP limit pretty quickly (from what I've read in the monstrous Helix thread).

    Ironically, all of this is do-able with a single amp using different patches on the GSP1101, which is vastly underpowered compared to any of the big-hitters. With the way it's configured, I'm guessing that delays are rendered ahead in the audio pipeline...which is something I'm surprised none of the big names do with their units. It requires extra DSP power yes (you're effectively rendering faster than real-time), but nowhere near as much as the (assumed) Headrush solution and is a lot more solid than the Helix approach.
    Try 2 Helix then! It's lot less hassle than 5 valve amp rigs and seperate effects chains on each.
    No, my point is that I could do all of that with the Headrush (if their marketing is to be believed), whereas I couldn't with a Helix.
    <space for hire>
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  • CabicularCabicular Frets: 2214
    Sporky said:

    Each to their own - there's also the engineer in me which says it's better to solve the actual problem than to implement a workaround as a "feature"
    Aye - I do get that. But the engineer in me says "why waste half your DSP on spillover when you could use it to have better models, or more effect blocks... Horses and roundabouts. What'd be nice is having the choice - only use one path on the Helix and get gapless and spillover, or use both for the extra processing.

    This is true. However...as a real-world example from what I was planning when I still had a band: you're the only guitarist in a band and you want to run in stereo to fill the sound out. You want one amp for your clean with stereo delay, two for your rhythm with a different stereo delay (switchable in/out) and one or two for your lead sound with stereo delay, with spillover on all of them. With the Helix solution, you're limited on the lead sound to one amp (only four signal paths), and with that many amp models running you'll hit a DSP limit pretty quickly (from what I've read in the monstrous Helix thread).

    Ironically, all of this is do-able with a single amp using different patches on the GSP1101, which is vastly underpowered compared to any of the big-hitters. With the way it's configured, I'm guessing that delays are rendered ahead in the audio pipeline...which is something I'm surprised none of the big names do with their units. It requires extra DSP power yes (you're effectively rendering faster than real-time), but nowhere near as much as the (assumed) Headrush solution and is a lot more solid than the Helix approach.
    Try 2 Helix then! It's lot less hassle than 5 valve amp rigs and seperate effects chains on each.
    No, my point is that I could do all of that with the Headrush (if their marketing is to be believed), whereas I couldn't with a Helix.
    You could but the OP would need to abandon the idea of using a different amp for each sound. the way I run is I have a clean amp, multiple paths to multiple outputs, multiple delays, multiple drives and multiple choruses and flanges.
    With snapshots you can configure all that stuff to switch parameters in real time and then have different scenes to switch to different amps (if you really want to) between songs.
    I think the difference is in the idea that you need a different amp model to get a different tone, It's not true and its not how most people would use a traditional set up

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  • Cabicular said:
    No, my point is that I could do all of that with the Headrush (if their marketing is to be believed), whereas I couldn't with a Helix.
    You could but the OP would need to abandon the idea of using a different amp for each sound. the way I run is I have a clean amp, multiple paths to multiple outputs, multiple delays, multiple drives and multiple choruses and flanges.
    With snapshots you can configure all that stuff to switch parameters in real time and then have different scenes to switch to different amps (if you really want to) between songs.
    I think the difference is in the idea that you need a different amp model to get a different tone, It's not true and its not how most people would use a traditional set up

    Not really - I'd use at least two different channels for that, which equate to different models.

    My point is that the gapless switching solution gets everything I want in this particular situation whereas the snapshot solution doesn't, which is why I believe it's better.
    <space for hire>
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  • John_AJohn_A Frets: 3775
    I use two amp set-ups with the Helix with no DSP issues, Fender Twin (always clean) and an Engl (varying from almost clean to very dirty)
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  • John_AJohn_A Frets: 3775
    Cabicular said:
    Here is my set up when I was using the Fryettes

    Bet that sounds great!  It just shows how versatile the Helix is, my complete rig is a Helix
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  • CabicularCabicular Frets: 2214
    It sounds amazing
    i can do so much with it
    panning tremolos 2 and 3 part guitar harmonies
    stereo flanges
    momenteray octave whammy
    all the fun of the fair
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 27587
    This is true. However...as a real-world example from what I was planning when I still had a band: you're the only guitarist in a band and you want to run in stereo to fill the sound out. You want one amp for your clean with stereo delay, two for your rhythm with a different stereo delay (switchable in/out) and one or two for your lead sound with stereo delay, with spillover on all of them. With the Helix solution, you're limited on the lead sound to one amp (only four signal paths), and with that many amp models running you'll hit a DSP limit pretty quickly (from what I've read in the monstrous Helix thread).

    Ironically, all of this is do-able with a single amp using different patches on the GSP1101
    So without the GSP you'd have taken five amps and three delay pedals?

    It all seems a bit light-the-lamp-not-the-rat. If you focus on doing it a specific way then you can easily rule out any unit you like; if you focus on the sounds you need you can probably do it with almost any unit you like.

    Certainly if you want clean, rhythm and lead (and they can be very different sounds) with different stereo delays it's easily done in the Helix with snapshots.
    "[Sporky] brings a certain vibe and dignity to the forum."
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  • RockerRocker Frets: 4947
    The Switcheroo system on my Anderson gives a lot of pickup options yet I find that two are sufficient for my needs.  And I like the sound of a guitar plugged straight into a simple amplifier, valve or my Pignose at home.  My now old Canon digital SLR has dozens of exposure options but like the Anderson alluded to above, I use a couple at most.  The point I am making is that the versatility and range of sonic options on a Helix or similar would be wasted on me.  Coupled with the fact that I had a bad experience with a Line6 amp a few years ago - I spent more time reading up on it and configuring the presets than actually playing my guitar through it.  So I got rid of it and am reluctant to venture into that water again.
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [Albert Einstein]

    Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

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  • Sporky said:
    This is true. However...as a real-world example from what I was planning when I still had a band: you're the only guitarist in a band and you want to run in stereo to fill the sound out. You want one amp for your clean with stereo delay, two for your rhythm with a different stereo delay (switchable in/out) and one or two for your lead sound with stereo delay, with spillover on all of them. With the Helix solution, you're limited on the lead sound to one amp (only four signal paths), and with that many amp models running you'll hit a DSP limit pretty quickly (from what I've read in the monstrous Helix thread).

    Ironically, all of this is do-able with a single amp using different patches on the GSP1101
    So without the GSP you'd have taken five amps and three delay pedals?

    It all seems a bit light-the-lamp-not-the-rat. If you focus on doing it a specific way then you can easily rule out any unit you like; if you focus on the sounds you need you can probably do it with almost any unit you like.

    Certainly if you want clean, rhythm and lead (and they can be very different sounds) with different stereo delays it's easily done in the Helix with snapshots.
    No, I wouldn't, because it couldn't do the dual amp thing. I could've done it with two GSP1101s, I guess, and still had £900 change from the price of a Helix :D

    A big part of the sounds want are:

    Lead: distorted as all hell on the right, less gain-y but more compressed on the left with a bit of power section distortion, with various stereo reverbs and delays (and some modulation)
    Rhythm: Gain-y on the right, less gain-y but a lot more compressed on the left, with various stereo reverbs and delays (and some modulation)
    Clean: Clean left and right but more scooped on the left, with various reverbs and delays

    That's not possible without compromise with any of the current modellers (Helix included) if I want gapless changes and spillover as well. Sure I could compromise on it, but...I'd rather wait for something which can do it all.

    This is all I've been trying to say from my first comment in this thread - wait and see with the Headrush, because it's likely to have capabilities that the Line 6, Kemper and Fractal gear can't manage. Sure, we don't know everything about it, but that's why I'm saying "wait a few weeks" instead of "pre-order a Headrush now!" ;)
    <space for hire>
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  • TeetonetalTeetonetal Frets: 7801
    Given that snapshots can alter any parameter I think helix could get you there or extremely close... though you'd have to be creative..
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  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Frets: 13929
    Given that snapshots can alter any parameter I think helix could get you there or extremely close... though you'd have to be creative..
    He's set on his GSP1101, let him enjoy it!


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  • VoxmanVoxman Frets: 4718
    Helix, AmpFX, Head Rush, Eleven ... I feel completely inadequate and a pauper with my 'from the Ark' Tonelab SE.  weep

    Please, someone...anyone...donate a Helix today to help a poor starving Voxman who has a wife, 2 kids and 10 ordinary non-custom shop guitars to support.  Times are tough and a Helix is desperately needed to replace 5 amps and a pedal board that can no longer be supported and will need to go into care.  Please give generously..! 

    Image result for del boy you know it makes sense

    D
    I started out with nothing..... but I've still got most of it left (Seasick Steve)
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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24579
    Voxman said:
    Helix, AmpFX, Head Rush, Eleven ... I feel completely inadequate and a pauper with my 'from the Ark' Tonelab SE.  weep

    Please, someone...anyone...donate a Helix today to help a poor starving Voxman who has a wife, 2 kids and 10 ordinary non-custom shop guitars to support.  Times are tough and a Helix is desperately needed to replace 5 amps and a pedal board that can no longer be supported and will need to go into care.  Please give generously..! 

    Image result for del boy you know it makes sense

    D
    Remind me not to give you my address given I have the R8 Lemonburst, the Helix, and Studio Monitors all nicely set up..

    Unless you're hiding a pre-CBS Precision under your bed at home... in which case we need to talk about the situation.. ;)
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  • fretmeisterfretmeister Frets: 23964
    Rocker said:
    The Switcheroo system on my Anderson gives a lot of pickup options yet I find that two are sufficient for my needs.  And I like the sound of a guitar plugged straight into a simple amplifier, valve or my Pignose at home.  My now old Canon digital SLR has dozens of exposure options but like the Anderson alluded to above, I use a couple at most.  The point I am making is that the versatility and range of sonic options on a Helix or similar would be wasted on me.  Coupled with the fact that I had a bad experience with a Line6 amp a few years ago - I spent more time reading up on it and configuring the presets than actually playing my guitar through it.  So I got rid of it and am reluctant to venture into that water again.
    I think it is fair to say that it is possible to get some sort of option paralysis if all you want is 1 or 2 sounds and never really change them. I can't be dealing with 10 pickup options on guitars with splits and parallel and series wiring etc.

    For amps and FX though I find inspiration in noises and different noises make me write in different ways. I don't find inspiration in pickup selections.

    I love putting together new sounds with the Helix, it's not really option paralysis for me - it's just that I find many different sounds that I want to keep and use them all for something. I'd like more patch memory on it!

    I may also need another expression pedal as I've just had another idea.
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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24579
    Rocker said:
    The Switcheroo system on my Anderson gives a lot of pickup options yet I find that two are sufficient for my needs.  And I like the sound of a guitar plugged straight into a simple amplifier, valve or my Pignose at home.  My now old Canon digital SLR has dozens of exposure options but like the Anderson alluded to above, I use a couple at most.  The point I am making is that the versatility and range of sonic options on a Helix or similar would be wasted on me.  Coupled with the fact that I had a bad experience with a Line6 amp a few years ago - I spent more time reading up on it and configuring the presets than actually playing my guitar through it.  So I got rid of it and am reluctant to venture into that water again.
    I think it is fair to say that it is possible to get some sort of option paralysis if all you want is 1 or 2 sounds and never really change them. I can't be dealing with 10 pickup options on guitars with splits and parallel and series wiring etc.

    For amps and FX though I find inspiration in noises and different noises make me write in different ways. I don't find inspiration in pickup selections.

    I love putting together new sounds with the Helix, it's not really option paralysis for me - it's just that I find many different sounds that I want to keep and use them all for something. I'd like more patch memory on it!

    I may also need another expression pedal as I've just had another idea.
    Some of my fave sounds on my Helix have been when I've accidentally hit a few footswitches without realising it, added some delay or something and then looked down and wondered why I wasn't on the patch I thought I was on! 
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