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Wheelchair user takes precedence over a mother and two babies in a double-buggy?

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  • mellowsunmellowsun Frets: 2422
    Don't see why the mother has to be ejected, why not just fold the buggy?
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  • sweepysweepy Frets: 4159
    A folded buggy can be hung up, therefore taking up minimal floor space, the upshot of all of this is that Public Transport is an absolute joke in the UK these days, thankfully I don't use it though both of my kids do
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  • ChalkyChalky Frets: 6807
    For safety reasons, a lot of modern buggies don't fold very much, still taking up a lot of room, plus the base often has changing bags etc, that the mother would normally take with her.
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  • grungebobgrungebob Frets: 3300
    sweepy said:
    A folded buggy can be hung up, therefore taking up minimal floor space, the upshot of all of this is that Public Transport is an absolute joke in the UK these days, thankfully I don't use it though both of my kids do
    You can not hang up a buggy unless stowed and secured adequately. Health and safety and all that. 

    What about a disabled mother and child who do eject then?
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  • CHRISB50 said:
    It's on page one of this thread @PolarityMan ;
    From the context I thought that fretmeister had rewd the judgement itself not just the summarizing article.
    ဈǝᴉʇsɐoʇǝsǝǝɥɔဪቌ
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11414
    Someone told me years ago that it would have actually been a lot cheaper for rail companies to pay for taxis for disabled people rather than modify all the trains and install lifts and ramps everywhere - and that was before you start adding costs for lawyers on cases like this into the mix.

    As someone said above, a little bit of common sense is needed.
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 27587
    Chalky said:

    But from what I read it seems several people on here would turf mothers and babies off buses at the side of the road without a second thought.  Jesus wept.
    Whereas you "seem" to think the disabled should be left to rot in the gutter, or, better, rounded up and shot. You big humanitarian you.
    "[Sporky] brings a certain vibe and dignity to the forum."
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  • ChalkyChalky Frets: 6807
    Sporky said:
    Chalky said:

    But from what I read it seems several people on here would turf mothers and babies off buses at the side of the road without a second thought.  Jesus wept.
    Whereas you "seem" to think the disabled should be left to rot in the gutter, or, better, rounded up and shot. You big humanitarian you.
    Drunk too much tonight @Sporky? Where have I suggested anything like that?  I just think demonising mothers with babies in buggies on buses is no answer to the problem.
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  • fretmeisterfretmeister Frets: 23964
    CHRISB50 said:
    It's on page one of this thread @PolarityMan ;
    From the context I thought that fretmeister had rewd the judgement itself not just the summarizing article.
    @PolarityMan I have read it. The link is on page 1 in one of my posts, not in th OP post.
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  • NiteflyNitefly Frets: 4902
    CHRISB50 said:
    It's on page one of this thread @PolarityMan ;
    From the context I thought that fretmeister had rewd the judgement itself not just the summarizing article.
    He has - it's in the link.  Here it is again:  http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKSC/2017/4.html


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  • fretmeisterfretmeister Frets: 23964
    Chalky said:
    Sporky said:
    Chalky said:

    But from what I read it seems several people on here would turf mothers and babies off buses at the side of the road without a second thought.  Jesus wept.
    Whereas you "seem" to think the disabled should be left to rot in the gutter, or, better, rounded up and shot. You big humanitarian you.
    Drunk too much tonight @Sporky? Where have I suggested anything like that?  I just think demonising mothers with babies in buggies on buses is no answer to the problem.
    Hale LJ, para 38 "Mothers with babies in buggies become devilish scum the moment they get in a bus"

    oh. It's not there. Maybe it's later.

    Nope.
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  • Mothers with prams/ buggies have no rights in law, disabled people in wheelchairs on the other hand do.

    Don't like it? Simple, don't have kids.
    littlegreenman < My tunes here...
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  • MyrandaMyranda Frets: 2940
    Is it harder to get a baby out of a pram and fold it up than to take a disabled person out of his wheelchair?

    Children are (mostly) a choice... disability is mostly not a choice... 

    So, in reasonable circumstances take kids out of pram, fold pram... then mum babies and disabled person all travel to their destination... 
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  • TimmyOTimmyO Frets: 7350
    Fretwired said:
    Chalky said:

    This is daft. Firstly, mothers with babies in double-buggies use the same space on the bus. The idea that an adult wheelchair user on a freezing windswept night can demand that a young mother with two babies can be ejected from a bus is not the right answer. Secondly, there is nothing more the bus driver can do other than ask the mother and babies to get off the bus - the bus driver has no power beyond that.

    As a bus driver said to me, no way is he going to try to eject a mother and babies from him bus - his family would disown him!
    What? That a wheelchair user wanted to use a space designated for wheelchair users? What's daft about that?
    Completely agree with Fretwired here

    Disabled people have been discriminated against (either actively or by oversight) for years, hence the various legal protections against discrimination, and accommodations made by public or publically-licensed service providers. 

    It's not an ideal situation, but a buggy can be folded, some children are old enough to sit on laps etc, but a wheelchair user has fewer options

    It is hard to see what a bus driver can do about it though if someone is set on not cooperating :-/ 
    Red ones are better. 
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  • breakstuffbreakstuff Frets: 10230
    edited January 2017
    Myranda said:
    Is it harder to get a baby out of a pram and fold it up 
    Apparently you can't fold a baby  in half more than eight times.
    Laugh, love, live, learn. 
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  • NiteflyNitefly Frets: 4902
    Myranda said:
    Is it harder to get a baby out of a pram and fold it up 
    Apparently you can't fold a baby  in half more than eight times.
    I know, I've tried.

    Not with my own children, of course - that would be wrong.
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  • Nobody, at least on here, is demonizing mothers with babies in buggies either. Unless @Chalky knows something the rest of us don't, it's not always totally practical but it *is* easier to ask a mother with a buggy to either move or fold up said buggy than ask a wheelchair bound person to get out of the wheelchair.

    Also, unless I'm being incredibly stupid, a wheelchair bound person is in a wheelchair for a very good reason.

    The only daftness I'm seeing here is Chalky's inability to understand what the issue is, more so when it's been pointed out reasonably several times.

    Twisted Imaginings - A Horror And Gore Themed Blog http://bit.ly/2DF1NYi


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  • SporkySporky Frets: 27587
    Chalky said:

    Drunk too much tonight @Sporky? Where have I suggested anything like that?  I just think demonising mothers with babies in buggies on buses is no answer to the problem.
    I was simply illustrating how you were presenting your point, but the other way around.

    In your first post you used the phrase "a freezing windswept night", when the incident took place in the morning. Now you're saying that anyone who disagrees with your position hates women with children. Why not stick to what's actually been said? You don't like it when people put words in your mouth (which was my point) but you do it to others with monotonous regularity.

    Have you read the judgement?
    "[Sporky] brings a certain vibe and dignity to the forum."
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  • fretmeisterfretmeister Frets: 23964
    Of course he hasn't read it.

    He doesn't ever present any cogent argument, he merely takes an opposing position and never suggests solutions to what he claims is the problem, and when challenged he moves the goalposts.

    He's a bewildered contrarian.


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  • GagarynGagaryn Frets: 1553
    crunchman said:
    It's not a simple one, but there are some "disabled" people who want more than "equality".

    I was in Argos a few months back when some woman in a mobility scooter who very loudly claimed to be disabled made a massive fuss about not being dealt with instantly by the staff, when everyone else had been queueing for 15 minutes because there weren't enough staff on.  She expected to be able to just jump to the front of the queue.  Not all are like that, but this does smack of that to some extent.

    If the space is used then wait for the next bus.  Another mother with a double buggy would have had to.

    A more legitimate argument is that more folding seats are needed so that there is flexibility for fitting more wheelchairs or buggies in as required, or that a more frequent bus service is required to cope with demand.

    Arguing that they can kick a passenger who is already on the bus and paid for their ticket off the bus is ridiculous.  They would just get sued the other way.

    Ultimately, the moral of this story is that if you actually want to get somewhere in a timely fashion, why on earth would you take a bus anyway?

    No, the moral of this story is "Don't go to Argos!"
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