BBC4, 9:30pm: The Story of the Marshall Amp

richh

Documentary, first shown in 2014

If you've not seen it before, I certainly found it interesting last time round

cruxiform

Well recommended. Love that documentary.

Rocker

Thanks for the tip, recording set on Sky box.

thermionic

My recollection is that came across as a glorified advert/PR film...

I'll still watch it again though, because I love electric guitars!

vasselmeyer

Watching now. Great to see Lemmy, Rick Parfitt and Jon Lord again.

thermionic

Hmmm, maybe I was thinking of some other programme... well worth watching again.

Sad to be reminded of how many old rockstars have left us in a few short years though.

impmann

thermionic said:

Hmmm, maybe I was thinking of some other programme... well worth watching again.

Sad to be reminded of how many old rockstars have left us in a few short years though     how good Marshalls used to be.

FTFY

fretmeister

I missed it - but I see it's on iPlayer so I might have to give it a go.

FX_Munkee

It's funny I watched it the first time around, and caught the last half last night and all I was left with was exactly the same as @vasselmeyer and @thermionic ;

Motorhate

I know they're iconic and they're British and that some great players use(d) them but I personally am not a fan. I've owned and borrowed JCM 800, 900s, TSL2000s, and also the cheaper valvestates too. Just don't get on with them at all.

ICBM

I really want to love them, the company has such a great history - at least for the first 25 years or so - and is an icon of the British music industry. Their customer service has always been pretty faultless too.

But I have been sadly less impressed by most of their more recent products - although I'm starting to see some signs of hope with some of the current ones. And hoping it's not too little too late.

I say that as the not very proud new owner of a TSL122 which I have somehow landed myself with . What's frustrating is that now I've tinkered with it a bit - actually in an experiment to fix a problem - I seem to have accidentally made it sound quite good! It's just not reliable.

Kalimna

Out of interest, how do the Astoria range compare? They don't seem to be cropping up in the fast-flowing classifieds section (unlike various Carrs/Peaveys/Fenders/etc). And that must either be because very few have been bought, or people who have bought them really do like them.

Adam

ICBM

Kalimna said:

Out of interest, how do the Astoria range compare? They don't seem to be cropping up in the fast-flowing classifieds section (unlike various Carrs/Peaveys/Fenders/etc). And that must either be because very few have been bought, or people who have bought them really do like them.

Given how how fast most buyers of high-end gear seem to turn it over, I assume it hasn't sold well.

I hate to say this, but I think the styling and the prices could both be a factor in that, irrespective of what they sound like. I haven't seen one in person yet to be able to comment on the sound.

Kalimna

Thats what i figured. I dont actually mind the styling, but i can see it as a little Marmitey. Regarding the price, in a way its a shame that people perhaps dont consider (outside of special editions of older amps) Marshall capable of producing amps to compete with other similarly priced items.

Still, an interesting documentary and i cant imagine many folk on here turning down an oppurtunity, if it arose, to play through the glass-case first Marshall...

Adam

p90fool

Motorhate said:

I know they're iconic and they're British and that some great players use(d) them but I personally am not a fan. I've owned and borrowed JCM 800, 900s, TSL2000s, and also the cheaper valvestates too. Just don't get on with them at all.

Then you arrived on the scene too late I'm afraid. I gigged Superleads heavily years ago, then the JCM800s came out and I bought one mail order thinking it sounded like a great idea, but gave it away within the year and went back to a pair of my old amps.

Some of the simpler JCM800 range are fine, but it was the beginning of the end.

impmann

p90fool said:

Motorhate said:

I know they're iconic and they're British and that some great players use(d) them but I personally am not a fan. I've owned and borrowed JCM 800, 900s, TSL2000s, and also the cheaper valvestates too. Just don't get on with them at all.

Then you arrived on the scene too late I'm afraid. I gigged Superleads heavily years ago, then the JCM800s came out and I bought one mail order thinking it sounded like a great idea, but gave it away within the year and went back to a pair of my old amps.

Some of the simpler JCM800 range are fine, but it was the beginning of the end.

I think I'd agree with this - I've played through a JCM800 that I did like (I can't remember the model but it had two stacked inputs, IIRC) but the later stuff, by and large, sounded like characatures of the 'Marshall sound'.

There's a fab clip of early ACDC live on that program. Malcolm's tone is just breaking up - its clear, crisp and aggressive but not gainy in the slightest. Angus' sound has more gain (and a little bit more 'tizz' to the beginning envelope of the plectrum attack) but still bell-like clarity. Likewise that clip of Kossoff with the only flame top Les Paul I'd own at the Isle of Wight, wringing the neck of every note. Its a *big* sound, but not gainy, fuzzy or flabby. That, for me, is the sound I like from Marshall but rarely can achieve.

Even the reissues of classic amps don't seem to sound like that. I borrowed a modern Bluesbreaker reissue once and was really disappointed by the sound - it sounded generic and lacking clarity at high volume. At low volume it wasn't an inspiring amp at all. I've played through the "Hendrix' 100w stack at a guitar show a few years ago and enjoyed the flappy trouser thing, but again it all sounded a bit... meh.

Like has been said above, I'd love to use Marshall amps - its iconic, they are relatively local etc - but they just don't suit me. Also my experiences of them (and their repair shop) have been less than stellar. That said, I am enjoying my little 5005 combo right now...

lustycourtier

Kalimna said:

Still, an interesting documentary and i cant imagine many folk on here turning down an oppurtunity, if it arose, to play through the glass-case first Marshall...

Adam

I had one built a few after that one. It sounded lovely in the brief time I owned it, before it was flipped and went straight to America.

ICBM

p90fool said:

Some of the simpler JCM800 range are fine, but it was the beginning of the end. 

The split-channel JCM800s are where the rot started, I agree - although they're well-made, this was where the diode clipping was introduced and where they started to lose the proper Marshall sound. Oddly enough neither channel is remotely like a classic Marshall circuit - they always seem to do this when they develop a new amp, rather than building on what they've already got. I've never actually understood why the Jubilees are so rated either, although it's true that they're the last really well-made Marshalls.

impmann said:

There's a fab clip of early ACDC live on that program. Malcolm's tone is just breaking up - its clear, crisp and aggressive but not gainy in the slightest. Angus' sound has more gain (and a little bit more 'tizz' to the beginning envelope of the plectrum attack) but still bell-like clarity. Likewise that clip of Kossoff with the only flame top Les Paul I'd own at the Isle of Wight, wringing the neck of every note. Its a *big* sound, but not gainy, fuzzy or flabby. That, for me, is the sound I like from Marshall but rarely can achieve.

To me the classic Marshall sound, from Kossoff up to Back In Black, is actually almost more of a ringing clean sound with 'teeth' on top, rather than fully distorted - you can still hear the clarity of every note in a chord.

I do think the reissues have 'the sound' - but they improve with better valves and well-broken-in speakers, it has to be said… they can sound a bit thin when they're new for some reason. Although still the best-sounding one I've ever heard was a '76 2203, I've never heard a modern one quite like that.

djspecialist

ICBM said:

To me the classic Marshall sound, from Kossoff up to Back In Black, is actually almost more of a ringing clean sound with 'teeth' on top, rather than fully distorted - you can still hear the clarity of every note in a chord.

So if the modern Marshall's don't reproduce that sound, where (other than a vintage Marshall) would you look to find it?

Motorhate

p90fool said:

Then you arrived on the scene too late I'm afraid. I gigged Superleads heavily years ago, then the JCM800s came out and I bought one mail order thinking it sounded like a great idea, but gave it away within the year and went back to a pair of my old amps.

Some of the simpler JCM800 range are fine, but it was the beginning of the end.

That could well be the case. I played (and actually recorded an album) through and old Plexi and whilst I hated the sound while playing, the recording didn't turn out too bad (although I sure the studio engineer must have worked some magic on it). I just find them uninspiring, bland and very unreliable. Its a real shame, but to me, like Gibson, Marshall seem to be living off their name rather than constantly trying to innovate like some of the other companies out there.
It always amazes me that Marshall never jumped (excuse the pun) on Eddie Van Halen and got him to collaborate with them to design what would eventually turn out to be Peavey's flagship amplifier and the "go to" amp for countless metal and rock bands over the years.

ICBM

djspecialist said:

So if the modern Marshall's don't reproduce that sound, where (other than a vintage Marshall) would you look to find it?

In my opinion the modern Marshall reissues (1987x and 2203) do reproduce that sound, but as I said you really need good valves and well-broken-in speakers. You can still buy an original 2203 or other late-70s JMP for sensible money too, much less than a new reissue and not a lot more - even if you include servicing - than a second hand one.