How is the conservatism of guitarists limiting the innovation within the market?

WezV

There is quite a bit in the more modern end of the market, which isn't what a lot of this forum is about.

extended range, "ergonomic", fanned frets, true temperament etc. Big changes to fundamental construction details that bring new hardware and shapes with them.

things like evo frets or new nut materials are a pretty big innovation.  Two way truss rods even more so.  

You our have to give Gibson credit, they have tried to innovate over the years

Gassage

There's loads of innovation.

Why only the other day I used an unwound fourth string- beat that.

Bridgehouse

Gassage said:

There's loads of innovation.

Why only the other day I used an unwound fourth string- beat that.

fretmeister

guitars4you said:

UnclePsychosis said:

@fretmeister a metal clarinet would probably still sound like a clarinet. The thing that makes a clarinet sound like a clarinet is the internal bore profile and the single reed mouthpiece. 

For most woodwind (and brass) instruments material is a secondary effect at best. 

Just spoke to my Dad about this - Ex pro muso - both Clarinet and Sax - lifetime in the business etc - They still tell the story of a wood clarinet sounding warmer to a plastic/carbon based clarinet - play both, listen to both and the difference is audible - some more subtle than others better nevertheless still audible

We've got a wood and plastic clarinet in the house as my daughter plays.

I can hear the difference - particularly in the initial attack of the note. But plastic clarinets were made to try and sound like wooden ones. That's why I was curious about a very different material.

Would a brass one sound like a soprano sax?

usedtobe

Jack_ said:

I'm disappointed in guitar innovation to be honest, I figured by now guitars should be able to cook and clean, or at least gently massage my genitals while I'm playing.

Build it and they will come!

koneguitarist

It all got better when Hartley Peavey started making guitars and consistently due to machines. 

Cols

fandango said:

Cols said:

One of the principal drivers of mass market appeal is what the most popular artists are using.  Look at any list of top 10 guitarists, and I can virtually guarantee you that not one of them will have started their career after the 1980s.  That limits equipment popularity to what was available 30 years or more ago.  The problem is not one of guitarist conservatism, but the fact that there haven't really been any new guitar heroes for a long time.

No new guitar heroes? Not sure I agree ... two to kick it off ...

Jack White
John Petrucci

Petrucci's been around for a while; I'm pretty sure he started in the mid-80s.  Jack White's more recent, but in terms of equipment he's as old-school as they come.  

koneguitarist

Lots of great players, but I personally don't think we have had a real guitar hero changing the way everyone plays since Eddie Van Halen in the 70's. 

spark240

Would it be safe to say that the average player prefers curvy rather than pointy? 

koneguitarist

Guitarists are generally quite conservative, partly down to all the tones we love being created by old vintage gear. Hence high prices for vintage gear, and hard for anyone to really sell new gear that's different in large numbers. 
PRS being the exception. 

steamabacus

fretmeister said:

guitars4you said:

UnclePsychosis said:

@fretmeister a metal clarinet would probably still sound like a clarinet. The thing that makes a clarinet sound like a clarinet is the internal bore profile and the single reed mouthpiece. 

For most woodwind (and brass) instruments material is a secondary effect at best. 

Just spoke to my Dad about this - Ex pro muso - both Clarinet and Sax - lifetime in the business etc - They still tell the story of a wood clarinet sounding warmer to a plastic/carbon based clarinet - play both, listen to both and the difference is audible - some more subtle than others better nevertheless still audible

We've got a wood and plastic clarinet in the house as my daughter plays.

I can hear the difference - particularly in the initial attack of the note. But plastic clarinets were made to try and sound like wooden ones. That's why I was curious about a very different material.

Would a brass one sound like a soprano sax?

The Horniman Museum's (London) musical instruments section has a Turkish 'Klarnet' - basically a simple steel clarinet - no idea what it sounds like, though.

There's no image on that link but it looks like the one on the left here ...

scrumhalf

You have to differentiate between innovation and improvement.

We have had any number of innovative things intorduced into the world of the guitar player, but how many of them have actually improved the lot of the guitarist? You can improve/modify/alter/faff around with any mhumber of things, but unless there is tangible benefit then, not being a community of fanbois, we tend to stick with the tried and trusted.

Skipped

I need to know what Clarinet/Les Paul Junior playing @merlin has to say.......

And........ if he has heard that joke that has the punch line:
"Don't worry Love....I can free your toe. But I am afraid I can't do anything for Acker Bilk"

Bidley

Cols said:

fandango said:

Cols said:

One of the principal drivers of mass market appeal is what the most popular artists are using.  Look at any list of top 10 guitarists, and I can virtually guarantee you that not one of them will have started their career after the 1980s.  That limits equipment popularity to what was available 30 years or more ago.  The problem is not one of guitarist conservatism, but the fact that there haven't really been any new guitar heroes for a long time.

No new guitar heroes? Not sure I agree ... two to kick it off ...

Jack White
John Petrucci

Petrucci's been around for a while; I'm pretty sure he started in the mid-80s.  Jack White's more recent, but in terms of equipment he's as old-school as they come.  

First DT album came out to zero fanfare in 1989, they only really took off in the early 90s.

But ok, there's the whole Grunge thing. Cobain was massive in the 90s. Then there's Noel Gallagher and the britpop thing.

p90fool

fandango said:

No new guitar heroes? Not sure I agree ... two to kick it off ...

Jack White
John Petrucci

I can't imagine loads of kids are pestering their parents for an electric guitar because of John Petrucci.

Hell, I've been playing for years and I genuinely have no idea who he is.

WezV

how long has Jack white been around now - 15 years in the mainstream consciousness?

Its hardly recent!

fretmeister

steamabacus said:

fretmeister said:

guitars4you said:

UnclePsychosis said:

@fretmeister a metal clarinet would probably still sound like a clarinet. The thing that makes a clarinet sound like a clarinet is the internal bore profile and the single reed mouthpiece. 

For most woodwind (and brass) instruments material is a secondary effect at best. 

Just spoke to my Dad about this - Ex pro muso - both Clarinet and Sax - lifetime in the business etc - They still tell the story of a wood clarinet sounding warmer to a plastic/carbon based clarinet - play both, listen to both and the difference is audible - some more subtle than others better nevertheless still audible

We've got a wood and plastic clarinet in the house as my daughter plays.

I can hear the difference - particularly in the initial attack of the note. But plastic clarinets were made to try and sound like wooden ones. That's why I was curious about a very different material.

Would a brass one sound like a soprano sax?

The Horniman Museum's (London) musical instruments section has a Turkish 'Klarnet' - basically a simple steel clarinet - no idea what it sounds like, though.

There's no image on that link but it looks like the one on the left here ...

Ooo!

I want to see that in person now!

Jeremiah

You could say that the synth and electronic music market is equally limited by conservatism.

 While computers could make almost anything possible, most of the actual commercial development in the field is in making software plugins or digital hardware that are ever-more-faithful emulations of classic analogue gear.

Sassafras

Is this like that last research project about digital being better than analogue?
The one that went tits up?

Christophe

 contemporary heroes being influenced by their heroes? I'll explain.... Slash (Les Paul user) lists one of his heroes/influences as Jimmy Page (Les Paul user) if you are influenced by slash perhaps you use an LP too. Before you know it 50+ years have passed!