Return Policy try-outs

colourofsound

Does anyone use return policies to try out pedals?

I'm sick of buying pedals second hand and then realising I don't like them and having to sell them on. I'm thinking that taking advantage of distance selling regs from places like Thomann to try out pedals is a better bet.

Any one else do this? Any particularly good shops that have decent stock who are good?

Not sure if there's a morality debate here - don't really care! GIVE ME PEDALS

guitarfishbay

If you buy a new pedal you can return it under consumer contracts regulations.  If the condition you return it in means it can't be sold again as new then you could be charged the depreciation IIRC

There's an overview here http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-contracts-regulations

Shops will have policies on their website too.

guitarfishbay

Gear4music do 30 days and they're based in the UK (York)

BloodEagle

Doing that is a bit of a pisstake really - not fair on the shop or website selling them in my opinion,

colourofsound

@BloodEagle said:

Doing that is a bit of a pisstake really - not fair on the shop or website selling them in my opinion,

Sure - the morality is 50/50 IMO. I think with massive shops that advertise that as a feature...

Thomann:

So you thought a particular product was the right one for you, and then you discover it's not. Well, that's life.

But no problem! We grant a 30-day money-back guarantee on any item you buy at Thomann - no hassles, no questions asked!

it's fine. They know the deal. I don't think I'd be comfortable doing it with smaller shops that are more reliant on single sales though.

guitarfishbay

BloodEagle said:

Doing that is a bit of a pisstake really - not fair on the shop or website selling them in my opinion,

Legally you have a right to do so, but the law changed in the past few years from DSR to CCR which I think gives shops more scope to charge you if you've opened the packaging up/marked it in such a way it can't be sold again as new.

I've never actually returned gear because of not liking it, only for having faults.  But I tend to spend forever searching forums, YouTube and SoundCloud before I buy anything 

markj

I bought a Yamaha thr10 just over 2 weeks ago from Dawsons music. I hated it. Dawsons gave me a full refund less than a week later.

NelsonP

I think where this gets tricky is in the area of modelling (Helix, Kemper, Fractal, Atomic Amplifire etc).

From what I have read, it seems like half of the modellers out there are not great stock, but only come to life when they have been tweaked / had custom IRs loaded etc. But they don't usually have these IRs loaded on the demo units and you can't spend hours tweaking in the shop. So how can you really know whether you like it or not?

Seems to me that an exception should be made on these. Something like you can return it within 14 days provided that :
a) it is unmarked and can be sold as new
b) it has been returned to stock

Right now, it seems that you are reliant on the goodwill of the shop for this.

Teetonetal

BloodEagle said:

Doing that is a bit of a pisstake really - not fair on the shop or website selling them in my opinion,

Isn't it the exact point of DSR? So that a customer can try a product?
How many times have you tried a pedal/guitar/amp in store and not bought it - then it gets sold as new to another customer?

I'm not sure what the difference morally?

BloodEagle

A lot of the time the pedal or whatever it is will get packed and posted, which takes time and costs money and also the return postage quite often is footed by the seller. In general even a returned but fully functioning and mint condition pedal will end up costing the seller money - for a small business this can add up quite a lot.

Teetonetal

Most buyers are responsible for return post? But if a business wants to sell online then DSR has to be adhered to and incorporated into their model.

I just don't see a moral problem at all. It's the system being used as intended.

Jonathanthomas83

Yep, return postage is paid by the buyer. Most of the time, taken out of the refund. I've no issue with it and have returned items in the past - by and large, sellers/shops have had no issue either.

John_A

I think it's a problem if someone buys a load of pedals to try with no intention of keeping them, i.e. order a new one to try, return it and then look for a used one on ebay, or order then just to try them for the heck of it, that was never the intention of DSR. 

If, however, you have read a review, think you might like it and don't live near to a shop, so order then find out it's not for you after all, then I see no problem with that.

Teetonetal

Again though, people do that ^ all the time in store... try. Don't buy. Look online for cheaper or used.

impmann

I know of at least one customer of Thomann who is banned for life for 'buying' anything else - the individual concerned would order reasonably high end guitars, keep them for a couple of weeks and then send them back, often scratched and with dead strings. He was bragging on Facebook that he never needed to buy a new guitar again, and was gigging the guitars then returning them within the time period, then ordering up something else for the next gig.

They got wise and banned the cheeky fucker.

TBH, the DSRs were there to protect folks, not as a 'try before you buy' scheme. Abusing the system always knackers it for the rest of us that are using it properly. 

Why not just get off your bum and try the pedals out in a store before buying?

guitarfishbay

impmann said:

Why not just get off your bum and try the pedals out in a store before buying?

Sometimes it really isn't practical, at my time of purchase for a certain pedal the only stockist was around a 5hr round trip away.  That's the whole point of these laws.  That guy who got banned sounds like he deserved it.

UnclePsychosis

My own personal take is that making a genuine purchase then deciding you dont like it is ok, buying something just to see what it's like knowing you'll almost certainly send it back isn't so cool. Gigging it definitely isn't on---practice room ok, beer soaked stage not cool.  

FelineGuitars

I think the DSRs are covering too wide a range of issues .

They may have been put in place to cover buying a pair of shoes - so if they didn't fit you wouldn't be stuck with them or a jacket that if you realise it didn't look good on you or that the quality was not what you expected - the sort of things that you would have known right away trying something on in a shop in the old fashioned way of shopping.

They weren't designed for trying something in depth for a longer period and being able to return it once you'd had the experience.
I think it's rather unfair on the retailer, and in turn unfair on the next customer if that item is returned into for sale stock

The trouble is that when I buy something I do want it to be brand new and box-fresh.

I like the whole unpacking something new experience to a degree, so I would always feel disappointed to get something that is to all intents and purposes second hand.

Jonathanthomas83

impmann said:

I know of at least one customer of Thomann who is banned for life for 'buying' anything else - the individual concerned would order reasonably high end guitars, keep them for a couple of weeks and then send them back, often scratched and with dead strings. He was bragging on Facebook that he never needed to buy a new guitar again, and was gigging the guitars then returning them within the time period, then ordering up something else for the next gig.

They got wise and banned the cheeky fucker.

TBH, the DSRs were there to protect folks, not as a 'try before you buy' scheme. Abusing the system always knackers it for the rest of us that are using it properly. 

Why not just get off your bum and try the pedals out in a store before buying?

Yep, that's taking the piss. I always buy with the intention of keeping, but sometimes it doesn't always work out...would be stupid not to take advantage of a returns policy...especially with the hit we usually take in the classifieds/ebay these days.

Dave_Mc

impmann said:

(a) I know of at least one customer of Thomann who is banned for life for 'buying' anything else - the individual concerned would order reasonably high end guitars, keep them for a couple of weeks and then send them back, often scratched and with dead strings. He was bragging on Facebook that he never needed to buy a new guitar again, and was gigging the guitars then returning them within the time period, then ordering up something else for the next gig.

They got wise and banned the cheeky fucker.

(b) TBH, the DSRs were there to protect folks, not as a 'try before you buy' scheme. Abusing the system always knackers it for the rest of us that are using it properly. 

(c) Why not just get off your bum and try the pedals out in a store before buying?

(a) That's taking the piss, as @Jonathanthomas83 said. I don't agree with nor condone that type of behaviour at all, and I certainly wouldn't do that myself. Like @Jonathanthomas83 , I always buy intending to keep it, but I reserve the right to return something if it turns out to be not what I thought if I couldn't try it first.

More importantly, knowing that I have the right to return the thing makes me happy to buy online in the first place- the online shops get more sales because people know they can return things. I certainly wouldn't buy online at all if I didn't have the option to return something if I didn't like it.

If shops don't want to bother with CCRs they don't have to sell online...

(b) I agree that the abusers ruin it for everyone else, but actually I would say that DSRs (and CCRs as they are now) very much are intended to let you "try before you buy"- i.e. if something is not what you thought, you can return it, because in a regular high-street shop you could do just that. That's the exact reason for them.

(c) Not always possible. I live in NI. Not very much in the way of pedals (or other fancy guitar gear) around here outside of Boss, EHX and the like.

Plus people with health issues might not be able to get to shops easily even if they live in an area with better shops.

professorben

Now don't dismiss this this as crazy talk, but one day I foresee a time, a time when guitarists will abandon their digital domains, and venture out into the sunlight, and lo they won't shrivel up in the sun, and they can visit a shop ( mystical place where gear is stored for photographing for websites) and those very guitarist would be able to try said gear and decide if they liked it before purchasing.

some call me crazy..........