Sticky strings or frets or fretboards.. idk.

skunkwerx

This is gonna be a long one so bear with me.. but any ideas are greatly recieved! I'll explain everything just to see if it helps anyone come up with anything.

I'll tell the story and then at the end list what I've tried to remedy it. 

So I've been suffering with this problem over the years and I've never yet come across anyone else that has ever experienced it. Its pissing me off and guitar playing for more than 5 minutes becomes a real ballache. Which obviously isnt good for playing or practice. 

The actual problem is that my fingers or strings or fretboard or something gets sticky. Not the usual back of the neck sticky either, which seems very common. 

This stickiness makes slides ridiculous, and bends somewhat of a pain (but not as bad as slides). I can only describe it as akin to the strings being made of rubber. 
The first 5 minutes of playing are usually ok, but after that my fingers are sore and feel sticky with noticeable indents from the strings. Usually when playing the treble strings, learning licks that involve bends and slides. 

My callouses arent the thickest, and half the time they get blistered off. Presumably through whatever the hell is making them grip the strings too much. So they dont help.. I guess my fingers have toughened over the years because I still manage to play, but i imagine im in more discomfort than any other player. Again thats another problem. I took a photo of my fingers the other day actually but as my laptops down it'll have to wait to be put up. Its yuk tho.

It all started 3 years ago with an Epiphone les paul plus top pro. Which was about when I began playing every day and including lead stuff, not just powerchords. 

I noticed within the first couple of days playing that the strings or fretboard or frets were somewhat sticky. Slides were impossible, and so were bends. 

My fingers just wouldnt move freely. I'd try to bend up, but they just gripped the fretboard and stopped dead. Same for slides. I couldnt slide to where I want to go. I might have managed a slide to a fret higher but then my fingers were stopped in their tracks.

I changed strings, cleaned the fretboard but to absolutely no avail. 
I tried lemon oil, naptha, dunlop cleaning and conditioning liquids, steel wool, polishing the frets.. I even took a razor blade to the fretboard, scraping away the very top only as per Ed Romans advice on another forum. This was to remove whatever the hell dye new guitars seem to have impregnated into the fretboard.

Felt great for 15 minutes while it was all slick, then it just got sticky again. 

In the end I took it back and luckily got a refund. 

However even on different guitars its still happening. 
Infact the only guitar it doesnt happen on is my esp ltd.. which is odd. 

I have a chapman and an Se prs. Same issue on both. Chapmans worse though. I cant figure it out. 

The prs's frets are smaller, and it has a rosewood board. Same as the epiphone I had. Yet the epiphone was very very bad, and the prs is an improvement.

My chapman has xjumbo frets and an ebony board, and my ltd has xjumbo frets and a rosewood board. 

I almost put this down to my own biology, sweating glue, rusting strings away immediately. But how can the same fret sizes and board materials give completely opposite results across different brands?! Thats why I'm thinking its something in the guitars causing this. 

I've thought my fingers are rubbing the fretboard, causing the drag. They were on the more open grained rosewood epiphone with its lower frets.
But the frets on my rosewood board tremonti se are about the same size, and yet its not as bad. 

But then this happens on guitars with extra jumbo frets too. Where any contact between fingertips and fretboard is minimal. The extra jumbos make it harder to slide, because theyre like speedbumps.. but im unsure if its frets causing this. 

Tried an ebony board, but alas no joy. So I'm now doubting its a fretboard wood issue. 

I've literally done my head in analysing this, feeling strings with different fingers etc. Its as though while playing, my fingers are leaking something, or picking something up, or mixing sweat and something like board oils and therefore getting the strings coated in it, causing the actual strings themselves to be the sticky part, with the frets also picking it up during slides.. 

I thought maybe the lemon oil is all leaking out of the fretboard or from under the frets.
So after the hellish epiphone experience, i've not used any cleaning products at all. They may have cleaned stuff, but it didnt improve my issue at all for more than half a day max. 

So heres what I do/have tried. 

1. I've tried fretting lighter. But its still sticky. + I have to fret real light, which means bends are difficult because I have to increase from hardly any pressure to loads.. 

2. I've tried d'addarios, ernie balls, rotosounds.. all the same. 

3. i wash my hands religiously before playing. 

4. i wipe the strings down before and after playing. 

5. Tried all the fast fret products. They help but its temporary until they become sticky, thus giving me double stickiness! 

6. Tried all the cleaning products under the sun. They improve things but only temporarily (a day or two max). 

7. Rubbing my fingers on my face. Yep! Again it helps slick things up but its a temporary fix and not curing anything or getting to the root of this. 

8. .10 strings seem worse but as I havnt fully experimented with putting .09's on one of the sticky guitars, I cant say for sure. 

9. Wiping my finger tips with a microfibre like all the time while playing. 

None of the above works. 


What I really cant get my head around is how all this happens, except on my esp. which has the same size frets, same brand strings, and same fingers playing it. 

So if my fingers/sweat are somehow reacting to something on the other guitars causing this, then what the hell are they reacting to?! Different brand of fretwire? Different strain of rosewood? 

Maybe the friction/stickiness is actually normal like all you guys also experience, but its my fingers just being shite. But again, why is my esp so nice to play. Feels dry and smooth no matter how long I play. No moist stickiness. 

I do get dry skin especially on my hands. So I use hand cream. Otherwise I hate the feeling of having dry hands.. but I suffered it incase it was the moisturiser in my skin.. but again, no difference. I usually wash my hands before I play, use hand cream but let my hands dry fully first anyway. 

Maybe I am fretting too hard. But fretting lightly seemed so alien and hard. Id slide a note and it would go dead, or to bend I'd need to add more pressure so rapidly then back to a light touch. Guess Im used to fretting with equal pressure consantly. But even so, a lighter touch doesnt seem to alleviate the problem enough to warrant doing it. 

Meh. I might just use 4 thimbles on me fingers.. problemo solved. 

Richardj

Are all of the strings you are using nickel wound? What are your frets made of? Nickel is known to cause an allergic reaction in some people. If you haven't already, you could try some coated or steel wrapped strings to see if it helps.

just a thought.

WezV

Is there any sticky residue, or is it mostly friction?

you seem to have covered most of the potential issues with the guitar but I would consider a bit of finish to satinise it.

First I would mask the board and give the frets a thorough buff.  Then unmasked i would wipe on a tiny amount of danish oil, buff it straight off and keep buffing for a few more minutes.  Repeat 3 times.  Then I would give it a final buff with 0000 Liberon wire wool and natural briwax.  Just a small amount thoroughly buffed in and finally polished with a microfibre cloth.  It should be as sleek as it's going to get at this point.


i would also consider your daily routine and see if there is anything you are putting on your hands which might account for it 

fretmeister

Richardj said:

Are all of the strings you are using nickel wound? What are your frets made of? Nickel is known to cause an allergic reaction in some people. If you haven't already, you could try some coated or steel wrapped strings to see if it helps.

just a thought.

This.

skunkwerx

Cheers all. 

My fingertips definitely do feel somewhat different after playing a bit. Hard to describe, I guess not sticky but, grippy, not thoroughly dry but not sweaty. Almost oily I guess. But not a slick oily.. 

Seems worse in recent years. I remember playing a lot in my teens, I'm certain I had fairly tough hard callouses, and definately didnt wash my hands before playing each time, yet never remember having issues. Its bizarre. 

No idea what the frets are made of, um, the prs could have nickel content as I know its hardware does, and it all tarnishes nicely between cleaning. Theyre deffo not stainless steel frets on any of them though. 

Using either d'addiario xl .09 - 46 or Ernie ball hybrid/super slinkys. So yup theyre nickel wound bass strings and plain steel trebles. 

Could have a go with the ernie ball cobalts or a coated set next to rule out strings completely. 

AndyR

My first thought as I was reading was nickel allergy. The other guitarist in the last band I was in had huge problems until his doctor tested him and diagnosed him as allergic to nickel. He'd get actual open sores on his fingers from rehearsals and gigs. When he switched to steel frets and strings he was able to carry on.

I'm not sure this is you though - but maybe something to check out with your GP.

On the dry skin, I suffer from this, and over the last year or so have learnt I have "mild" psoriasis. The most annoying place is the backs of my hands. Exhibits as dry skin patches, gets itchy, sore (even without scratching), hardens and skin breaks. I was trying all sorts of hand creams and moisturisers - nothing worked for me. A pharmacist suggested Aqueous Cream. I had used it as a soap before, but now I use it as a cream on the trouble areas, everyday after showering, whether it needs it or not - that has seriously reduced the issue and keeps the red patches and skin breaks at bay. I haven't touched any other hand cream or moisturiser since (nearly 12 months ago). At first I was seriously worried about playing guitar with this gunk on, but have found that it rubs in well, and I can be playing within 10 minutes with no noticeable adverse reaction/affect on the guitar. 

Finally - with Wez saying "daily routine" - do you do much cooking yourself? Chopping garlic? I find this definitely has some effect. I'm holding garlic with left hand while chopping - fretting fingers - and no matter what I do, lemon juice, nail brush, soaps, daily shower, etc, there can be a hint of garlic that sticks around on those fingers for at least 24hrs. Years ago, when I was cooking curries every single day (chopping three or four garlic cloves every time), I found fretboard/strings could be a bit "oh you cooked with garlic and didn't do much about it" - they could feel a bit sticky, nowhere near as bad as you describe, though. Eventually, I noticed the fretboard could smell of garlic sometimes (this was noticeable when I was lemon oiling it, for ages I was convinced there was garlic in the lemon oil!). 

p90fool

Try some Elixir Nanoweb strings. You're symptoms are pretty much what I get with conventional strings, except it only affects me during long gigs. 

skunkwerx

Its weird. In the past on both my very cheap ibanez Gio and midrange ltd, it seems the longer I play the drier my fingers become. They almost feel like lubricated by something dry and usually have a hint of black, akin to how pencil lead works as lubricant. Its highly enjoyable and a dream to play. Even with the same nickel strings as always.

Just tried some ernie ball cobalts. So no nickel in those. Think theyre cobalt wound bass strings and plain steel trebles. I also at the same time dropped the gauge to my normal hybrid 9-46. 

The difference is noticeable. 
The string gouges in my finger (usually 3rd at the mo because im learning several licks that involve the 3rd finger both sliding a lot and bending) is less deep. And I can play easier with less force. So that helps.

But the problem remains. 

Its a mystery. I'd like to play another esp ltd for a month to see how it fairs, it would be truly odd if thats the only brand that doesnt give me this shit!

I do wonder on the moisture content of the fretboard. Is it ever enough to moisten fingertips and thus cause so much friction or drag, maybe combined with my crappy callouses or skin.

It does also appear frets have this stickiness or friction, whether its being transferred to them because a lot of my finger comes into contact with them, maybe building up on the fret sides or something. 

But again not so bad on my ltd which has extra jumbos. 

stratman3142

I once had a problem at an outdoor gig on a very humid day with fingers that felt sticky and I found it difficult to play fast. I did a bit of Googling and found that natural talc or corn starch can help, so I now carry some with me in my guitar case. That combined with fast fret might help.

This is the post where I found out about the talc/corn starch solution (see link below).
https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/baby-powder-on-the-hands-ala-jeff-beck.928387/

Alvin

Johnsons baby oil , better and cheaper than any commercial string lube you will buy  , lasts for ages on the strings .
  For the dry/cracked skin O'keeffes working hands is really good it leaves your hands feeling like they have a waxy coating but not sticky .

AndyR

skunkwerx said:

Its a mystery. I'd like to play another esp ltd for a month to see how it fairs, it would be truly odd if thats the only brand that doesnt give me this shit! 

What frets does this esp ltd have? Are they different material than the other guitars?

My old guitarist with the nickel issue switched to steel strings, but he still had problems. That's when we learnt that standard frets have a sizeable proportion of nickel silver in them. His GP said to him that that could be enough to trigger the issue easily if he's in contact for several hours - a rehearsal or a gig. So he tried steel frets, and as far as I can remember he was fine after that (this was YEARS ago, though).

Voxman

This is a medical condition.  Go and see your GP and get him to refer you to an appropriate specialist...he'll probably refer you to an allergy specialist and/or a dermotologist. Its also possible this could be a dietry/enzyme based issue.  

Until the problem is diagnosed, anything else is a waste of time.

skunkwerx

I fully agree voxman. It feels a waste of time. its also bloody expensive and wastes so much time keep trying new things or cleaning agents and by the time I'm done theres little time to play, and before I know it the problems come full circle. 

Been looking up fret material. Seems like the most common is nickel silver. Which has no silver, just nickel and bronze. They are for sure not stainless on my guitars. Esp frets seem harder wearing, especially considering my old epiphone showed scratches on the frets an hour after a long jam after being polished! 

Maybe if it is a nickel issue, then some frets with higher nickel content would obviously be worse, such as the softer frets on the epi. But it confuses me that nickel strings on one guitar gives no apparant issue. However I'll play it for an hour tomorrow and report back with my findings on that! 

It isnt severe or even moderate if its an allergy, as I wear jewellery and have seen nickel reactions, which I have none of it seems. 

I just wish I could find the answer! If I knew 100% stainless steel frets would solve it all, i'd sell half my gear just to have one guitar refretted with ss frets! 

Thanks all for the time n advice tho! 

Voxman

So, @skunkwerx you'll go see the doc? Fingers crossed he can help get you sorted my friend, don't try and cope with this and suffer on your own...keep us posted.

skunkwerx

Voxman said:

So, @skunkwerx you'll go see the doc? Fingers crossed he can help get you sorted my friend, don't try and cope with this and suffer on your own...keep us posted.

Cheers man aye I've added it to my list for the next docs visit! Im there more often than not haha. Would be beneficial even if it rules something out! 

bignorm

I've read this with interest coz I suffer with sticky strings if I'm playing outdoors where the temperature has dropped as the sun has gone down. 
Like other people have already suggested, I'm thinking you've more than likely got an allergy to nickel but there's a couple of things you do which make me wince a bit.
I never wash my hands just before playing as you strip the natural oils from your skin and slightly soften your calluses making runs and slides a bit harder. 
If you wash your hands give them 15 to 20 mins or so to give your skin chance to recover. 
If I have a piss before going on I only wash that hand as I'm right handed. 
I avoid string cleaner treatments as they just chuck crap on the strings that go sticky a few minutes after you start playing. 
If my strings go sticky, I wipe them clean with a very slightly oiled rag (and I mean very very little, as it's about cleaning the bits of skin gunk off rather than oiling the strings) but that's a get me through the gig and change the strings ASAP before next time. I don't recommend you try this as you've got sensitive skin the last thing you want to do is irritate it with petrol chemical products. Plus it's not a good idea to introduce oil to rosewood fingerboard. 
If im doing an outside gig where everything is getting a film of moisture on it as the temperature changes I wear gloves right up to the point of tuning up to play to prevent everything going sticky. 
I've seen videos of Jeff beck rubbing talc on his hands but haven't tried that as I'm allergic to the stuff but I've often wondered if that's his cure 

ESBlonde

I think it's your skin cream. I read through your comments and then the light came on right at the end.
When do you apply this? If you could do it last thing at night so that when you pick up guitar the next evening most of it has worn off the surface.
Or try only applying it to your picking hand for a few days, that'll take some doing to avoid rubbing your hands together. Do you use a specific brand and have you considerred changing the brand/type?

I have/had bad acid sweat for years and cold never get more than a single weekends gigging from a set of strings, sometimes I had to change them for each gig if they were long nights (back when 3 or 4 sets on the US bases was common). So I know about the problems that brings, I always take a small hand towel to gigs or rehearsals so I can wipe my face or hands regularly. Wash hands before playing everytime.

skunkwerx

Little update.. doctors app is still 2 weeks away.. 

But in the meantime I tried stainless steel strings, Ernie ball Cobalts, no difference so I'm doubting its a nickel thing now. 

Changed hand cream and a possible slight improvement but only initially. 20 mins in and there is a definate 'something' on the strings.. worse on certain guitars. 

My Esp gets slower feeling, but the Prs, Chapman, epiphone gets actually sticky. 
Makes for damn sore finger tips and slides become.. grabby and innacurate. 

Hmmm. 

I was almost certain it was my biology.. but why is it worse on certain guitars with similar xj frets or mediums.. 

Its only really a problem on the unwound strings. I dont seem to notice it on the wound 3.. although no doubt its happening, I guess theres less plain surface area to become sticky, so slides are still doable and the string never feels tacky. 

I also looked at my callouses.. theyre never really there or hard. Like my fingers have toughened over the years a little, but no full callous.. 

Roland

There's all sorts of possibilities here. My own remedies for sticky fret boards are cheap, and can be done in the middle of a gig. If too dry then run your fingers across your scalp, if too wet then use talcum powder. I got these from watching Jeff Beck, and they've served me well.

Evilmags

Climber's chalk or Johnson baby powder applied liberally before playing. 

skunkwerx

Cheer all. I did try the baby powder actually after hearing Jeff Beck does it. 
Made the unfinished back of the neck extremely lovely! As for the finger side though... almost no different after a while.. so added more..maybe too much. but I'll try again reapplying just a little more often. 

Downside is the ebony boards grain is now filled white... maybe I overkilled it. Lol