valve amp with headphone output

docbaker

Looking for some learned advice ..

I have a yamaha thr10c as my first amp, for home use, which is quite versatile, but I do not need all the styles - it's a bit like a swiss army knife, and the main thing is that it does not have enough output, when the wife is out, great to have a headphone socket when she is in though. I am a learner doing lots of practice, and my favoured style is rock, so pink floyd, led zepp, some bowie, free, wishbone ..

So I want more output, and I really like the sound of valve amps demo'd for me, the fender bassbreaker 007 comes to mind. I think a 10w valve job is plenty for my needs, and I don't want to iterate more than I have to, but the continuing need for a headphone output seems limiting.

The only amp I have found so far, that suits function-wise, is the brunetti maranello metropolitan 10w 2ch, but the price is well pricey.

Any ideas on alternatives, and any thoughts on the brunetti?

Many thanks
David

kreggs

Of the top of my head there are a couple of valve amp heads with headphone out. The peavey classic 15 and the laney lionheart  5w. The combo versions do not seem to have headphone output.
I just bought a zoom g1on pedal recently which is way more fun than going into the back of the headphone output on my lionheart. Plus i love the drum track and looper features.

Modulus_Amps

not tried one, but not too expensive
http://www.ratvalveamps.com/dummy-load

kreggs

Modulus_Amps said:

not tried one, but not too expensive
http://www.ratvalveamps.com/dummy-load

Wow that seems like a cool idea. Never seen them before

p90fool

Modulus_Amps said:

not tried one, but not too expensive
http://www.ratvalveamps.com/dummy-load

Not speaker emulated though, so it will sound vile directly into headphones.

Voxman

kreggs said:

Modulus_Amps said:

not tried one, but not too expensive
http://www.ratvalveamps.com/dummy-load

Wow that seems like a cool idea. Never seen them before

Yes, it looks good.  But I noticed you have to specify impedance, it says 
 
Please request a 4, 8-or-16 Ohm Unit when Ordering 

I'm unclear from the way its worded whether there are
(a) 3 versions ie 4 ohm unit, 8 Ohm unit, 16 Ohm unit or
(b) only two versions ie a 4 Ohm unit and a unit that can either be used for 8 or 16 Ohm speaker sockets.  

Can anyone clarify?

I'm not a techie, but I was just wondering why they didn't design the unit to be switchable - would that have been a lot harder to do?   

NelsonP

Blackstar HT5R and Marshall DSL5C both have emulated headphone outs. Maybe check them out?

HAL9000

I seem to recall, but stand to be corrected, @icbm saying that headphone sockets are the weak point in many amps. I don't remember the thinking behind this but wondered if it's why not that many 'serious' amps have headphone outs?

ICBM

The basic problem is that without onboard speaker emulation, a headphone output is as good as useless, because it will sound awful - that applies to almost all amps with headphone sockets made up to about 20 years ago, and even some more recently.

With a valve amp you can't even have a headphone output without either an onboard dummy load or a way of muting the power amp when the headphones are in use, and driving them separately.

There are some valve amps with emulated headphone outs though, eg the Blackstar HTs, the Marshall DSL5 and some Mesa models.

Another problem is that by turning the speakers off, the headphone jack introduces another potential failure point... this is quite common on older amps where the jack has probably never been used for years, if at all - the contact point often gets corroded and stops the amp working.

Limehouse_Blues

If headphone out is key I can't see why the Yamaha could be in any sense inadequate. They're great for headphone practice. If you want more power but must have a headphone socket I'd sack valves and look at something like the 50w Katana instead.

rlw

Buy a Vox AV30 and sell the Yamaha.

timmysoft

The Laney IRT Studio has a headphone out (with its own level control) and it sounds bloody good, i've been thinking about picking another one up for home practice/recording/fly-rigging.

ecc83

With regard to the reliability question with some amplifier headphone outputs can I just say that the HT-5 IS, AFAIK, unique in its implementation?

The H/P out IS emulated* but does not interrupt the main signal path through the amplifier so even if the socket failed (never had one bork!) the main speaker and PA will still work. The H/P circuit is an entirely separate solid state section which, when the plug is inserted, "gates" a FET to remove the drive to the PI and hence the valve OP stage.

Note: Some very, very early Fives had a problem in that the transistor in the gating circuit was temperature sensitive and gave erratic operation.  A simple, single resistor value change fixed the trouble.

*Emulation is of course in the lap of personal taste. You can't please 'em all!

Dave.

frown

I just picked up a Vox Lil Night Train head - tube and has headphone out, but is only 2W...

HAL9000

docbaker said:

 I think a 10w valve job is plenty for my needs, and I don't want to iterate more than I have to, but the continuing need for a headphone output seems limiting.

Do you know how loud 10 'valve' watts are? More than enough for home use.

frown said:

I just picked up a Vox Lil Night Train head - tube and has headphone out, but is only 2W...

I suspect 2 Watts of valvey goodness would be plenty loud enough for indoors.

musicman

I use a H&k GM36 in silent mode and use the DI out in to a little two channel mixer. The other channel goes in to my PC, headphones in to my mixer. So basically i click on my music or even youtube and then play along that way with my headphones on..

kreggs

frown said:

I just picked up a Vox Lil Night Train head - tube and has headphone out, but is only 2W...

Thats got me thinking about the bugera t5 which looks a bit like it and also the bugera g5. Both also with headphones output. 

FX_Munkee

timmysoft said:

The Laney IRT Studio has a headphone out (with its own level control) and it sounds bloody good, i've been thinking about picking another one up for home practice/recording/fly-rigging.

Yep, has a built in dummy load so you an simply disconnect the speaker as well, plus the 1w or 15w options and the USB, re-amp etc.connections make it pretty handy. I have one in a mini rack with a GSP1101 and it covers just about any base I need it to.

docbaker

Thanks everyone for your comments, very useful in straightening out in my mind what I am actually looking for.

I’ve fallen for the valve sound, will forget the headphone connectivity, and keep the thr10c for that, but add a valve amp to complement my set-up. I think this is the GAS syndrome everyone talks about. But it should come in at half the cost of the brunetti, good looking though it is.

I have the thr10c dialled up full, with reputed 10w output, and I don’t find the same tonal qualities that I’ve heard from tube amps of the same wattage. i assume this is a function of solid state versus tube and larger speaker. 

The thing now is the right valve job, one that has switchable power, like the marshall dsl5 suggested here, but up to 15W perhaps, as I’ve heard it said that a dialled down tube amp sounds better than a higher output model dialled up to max.  I try and buy british made, or at worst european. I think the marshalls are british made.  Here’s my shortlist to try out ..

marshall dsl5

vox ac4tv 4w/1w/.25w; ac10c1; ac15

vht special 6 6w

blackstar ht5r

fender bassbreaker 007

laney cub 8

peavey?

NelsonP

Would be interested to hear what you think about DSL5, HT5R and Bassbreaker 007. No headphone out on the 007 IIRC.

If you aren't worried about headphones then why not go up a peg.
The Bassbreaker 15 is a lovely thing and not much more £. I have seen reports of noisy FX loops on those though.
There's also an Ibanez tubescreamer amp in that price range that supposed to be pretty good, at least according to what I've read on forums.
https://www.andertons.co.uk/p/TSA15H/guitar-amp-heads/ibanez-tsa15h-15w-tube-screamer-amp-head
There are also second hand options. You could maybe pickup a second hand Mesa Studio 22, DC3 or 5:25 for similar money.

FWIW, Dawsons have quite a nice way of being able to sort amps by e.g. valve, low power output etc.....
http://www.dawsons.co.uk/guitars/guitar-amps

Finally, make sure that whatever you but has fine control of the volume via the master. Even a 5W valve amp can be LOUD

docbaker

Thanks nelsonp, I will have PMT demo those three in the next week, will feed-back what I think, point taken on fine control.