Aeolian Scale WTF?

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Mark_RMark_R Frets: 79
I'm learning the modes and trying to find new scales to play with a minor chord sequence.  So I get the idea of Dorian, Phrygian, but whats the point in Aeolian?  If I'm right, its just the Natural Minor scale with a fancy name.  If so, WTF, is this just complicating things for no purpose,  Please help shed some light on this stupid question as I'm either missing something or its plainly obvious.
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Comments

  • BensonBenson Frets: 242
    Aeolian is just the minor scale, Ionian is the major scale. 
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  • Mark_RMark_R Frets: 79
    Thanks Benson, that is what I thought but I was wondering why they had two names and if there was a reason behind it.  Clearly not, so thanks for clearing that up.
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  • BensonBenson Frets: 242
    I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than me can give a history lesson but they're the same thing essentially. 
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  • May I offer you some reassurance.

    Dorian and Phrygian are where the meat is. Now start exploring mixolydian and Lydian, they are far more interesting.......but that's just imo lol  :)
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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    edited February 2017
    I could take you all through it but it is a long, long discussion and there isn't an easy way to explain how you get from early monophonic music, through to the origins of counterpoint (Palestrina etc), then to Baroque, Classical and end up with modal music.
    I can do this if people are particularly interested but if you look at the The New Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians you can get a pretty good overview.

    In short you have the modes of the major scale, which are also called Church modes.
    They came from the Church, specifically for use in Gregorian chant in around 600AD.
    Before that the Greeks came up with tonos, which are somewhat related, comprising of Mixolydian, Lydian, Phrygian, Dorian, Hypolydian, Hypophrygian & Locrian. These Greek scales had different starting notes to modern modes but were roughly approximate to the usage we have today.

    Western classical music uses the Major scale and the Minor scale, which the rest of us call the Harmonic Minor.
    When you use the Melodic Minor scale in Classical music you descend with the Natural Minor, which has a flattened 6th and 7th.
    That doesn't mean you are descending with the Aeolian mode, because you aren't really using modes in this instance, even though you are using the same notes.

    Essentially just accept that the Aeolian and the Natural Minor are the same, and that the Ionian and Major scale are the same.

    *Edit: fleshed it out a bit more.
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  • fendergibsonfendergibson Frets: 562
    edited February 2017
    Of all things guitar related, the modes are the most ridiculously difficult concept to grasp, yet once it dawns, the most intuitive and enlightening aspect to playing lead guitar.



    Profound.....I don't know how I even wrote that....  :o :#
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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    May I offer you some reassurance.

    Dorian and Phrygian are where the meat is. Now start exploring mixolydian and Lydian, they are far more interesting.......but that's just imo lol  :)
    IMHO it starts getting interesting when you hit superlocrian to play altered V chords.

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  • JezWyndJezWynd Frets: 6021
    I get excited going from A to G. Pinky use is optional.
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  • When I saw learning to play Almost 30 years ago, the Modes were seen (by me anyway) as a way of learning different positions of the Diatonic Scale. These days it is referred to as CAGED System.
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  • Mark_RMark_R Frets: 79
    Thanks, I have spent the past 10 years playing Natural Minor and Major scales and although it only changes a note, it does make a difference.  Given me some new inspiration so thanks everyone.
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  • StuckfastStuckfast Frets: 2393
    It's not really a question of there being a point to it. The system of modes would be incomplete without the Aeolian. Just as it would be incomplete without the Locrian, even though there is virtually no real music in that mode.

    Incidentally a lot of English folk melodies are Aeolian, so it's probably useful if you ever want to get involved in traditional music.

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  • 57Deluxe57Deluxe Frets: 7329
    just use a pentatonic and add-in any notes you like and call them 'Blue notes' if Questioned... works for Clapton...
    <Vintage BOSS Upgrades>
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  • Mark_RMark_R Frets: 79
    Thanks @57Deluxe that is kind of what i thought the modes were for, justifying a bum note!  
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  • mike_lmike_l Frets: 5700
    Mark_R said:
    Thanks @57Deluxe that is kind of what i thought the modes were for, justifying a bum note!  

    Call them "Jazz notes" and you cannot possibly be playing a wrong note.

    Ringleader of the Cambridge cartel, pedal champ and king of the dirt boxes (down to 21) 

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  • octatonic said:
    I could take you all through it but it is a long, long discussion and there isn't an easy way to explain how you get from early monophonic music, through to the origins of counterpoint (Palestrina etc), then to Baroque, Classical and end up with modal music.
    I can do this if people are particularly interested but if you look at the The New Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians you can get a pretty good overview.

    In short you have the modes of the major scale, which are also called Church modes.
    They came from the Church, specifically for use in Gregorian chant in around 600AD.
    Before that the Greeks came up with tonos, which are somewhat related, comprising of Mixolydian, Lydian, Phrygian, Dorian, Hypolydian, Hypophrygian & Locrian. These Greek scales had different starting notes to modern modes but were roughly approximate to the usage we have today.

    Western classical music uses the Major scale and the Minor scale, which the rest of us call the Harmonic Minor.
    When you use the Melodic Minor scale in Classical music you descend with the Natural Minor, which has a flattened 6th and 7th.
    That doesn't mean you are descending with the Aeolian mode, because you aren't really using modes in this instance, even though you are using the same notes.

    Essentially just accept that the Aeolian and the Natural Minor are the same, and that the Ionian and Major scale are the same.

    *Edit: fleshed it out a bit more.
    Excellent reply. "How to Listen To, And Appreciate Great Music" by the Great Courses on Audible touches on some of this modal-tonal shift. Interestingly, it would appear Gregorian chant wasn't named that at the time, iirc it was plainchant - it's got the Gregorian moniker because Pope Gregory started pushing in that more conservative direction (since mass was starting to be sung with *gasp* popular music themes) 

    At least, that's how my fuddled memory recalls it.
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  • Modes tend to be utterly confusing for what is a relatively easy, yet very rewarding, musical concept ;)

    Twisted Imaginings - A Horror And Gore Themed Blog http://bit.ly/2DF1NYi


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  • vizviz Frets: 10647
    edited February 2017
    You are automatically playing in the natural minor (Aeolian) key whenever you have a minor i chord and a minor iv chord (and a normal, unlowered 2nd note). Also whenever you have a i-VII-VI progression. In fact Aeolian is the 'default' minor key, hence the word 'natural'. It counts for a huge amount of minor music, for example anything by Iron Maiden, most of Santana, most minor blues songs, as well as almost all western minor classical music pieces from 1600-1940, just to name a few genres. If a song is "sad", it'll be Aeolian 90% of the time. 

    If a minor piece has a major IV chord or a minor (not diminished) ii chord, then it's automatically Dorian (this is relatively common), and if it has a lowered II note or chord, or a minor vii chord, then it's Phrygian (this is relatively rare). Of course, even where a piece is written in Aeolian, that doesn't stop you noodling with Dorian or indeed Phrygian tunes if you wish - you can do whatever you like! - but you'll be 'deviating' from the actual key of the song in many cases. If you were to transcribe your solo you'd be having to write accidentals all over the 6ths or 2nds. 

    If a minor piece has a major V chord, then it's calling on the harmonic minor or melodic minor (ascending) structure, but even these were originally merely temporary deviations from Aeolian to make the V-I cadence work better, and that still stands in most cases today. If you noodle in harmonic minor or melodic minor (ascending), you'll probably find that you're often doing it on the V chord (see Yngwie, Vivaldi, Bach) - in other words you'll be making the V a major chord, which sounds more comfortable than a minor v chord. But the piece is very often otherwise written in natural minor. 

    Then as Octa says, there are plenty more exotic scales to try. 
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • viz said:
    It counts for a huge amount of minor music, for example anything by Iron Maiden, most of Santana, most minor blues songs, as well as almost all western minor classical music pieces from 1600-1940, just to name a few genres. If a song is "sad", it'll be in D Aeolian 90% of the time. 
    Fixed that for you Viz.
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  • vizviz Frets: 10647
    Ha thanks :))
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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