Eb tuning

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beed84beed84 Frets: 2403
I'm curious.  How many guitarists here use Eb tuning as standard?  What are the pro's and con's of doing so?  I can see that less tension will improve playability, but does down tuning half a step cause anyone any issues?  Like in band situations.  I'm sure it isn't that big of a deal but I'd like to know if you do use it all the time, how do you deal with it where it doesn't become a hindrance?  I'm considering making the move.

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  • I do it with the band I'm in a the moment, purely to make it a little easier for the singer. There are a couple of tracks we do that he can't quite hit the top notes in concert pitch.

    I use 11s as I like a little fight in my guitars. Tuning to Eb is OK on my Tele but feels a bit floppy on the Les Paul. I could go to 12s on the Gibson but then I'd need a new nut cut for the guitar and I don't want to make permanent change to it so I just live with it.

    However, most of the time I just don't even think about it.
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  • GrunfeldGrunfeld Frets: 4027
    edited January 2014
    Personally I f*cking hate having to tune down to Eb but I have to do it cos it's the only way the singer can cope. 

    I don't like the way the strings feel loose and sloppy (I use 9s) but I like it even less to have to use 10s. 

    In fact I can't think of anything else that pisses me off more, everything just feels wrong.

    Generally do one set in standard and the second set in Eb.  So the only pro is pragmatic, for the singer's benefit.  The con is that it feels like shit and the tuning isn't as stable, especially on the bottom strings.

    Not a fan.
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  • There are a lot of bands that do it in their live set just to make it easier on the singer night after night. U2 do it, Lizzy did it and if you watch the Led Zep reunion they tuned down to D (at least on "Rock n Roll"). I've heard some guitarists say how much extra "oomph" they get from hitting the open 6 string in Eb but I don't buy that. One semitone is hardly going to make any difference at all.
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  • ...One semitone is hardly going to make any difference at all.
    Oh come on, everyone likes a nice semi. :)
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  • digitalscreamdigitalscream Frets: 26450
    edited January 2014
    All our stuff's in Eb; actually, drop-Db. I use 9-46 to maintain a bit of tension on the lower strings, but...I honestly don't notice any problems with it.

    The extra semitone down doesn't make much difference until you're palm muting - on my amp, at least, it really gives an extra low-end whump relative to E or drop-D.
    <space for hire>
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  • I use flats all the time. It's nothing to do with string tension, I just find my guitars sound better when half or whole step down. The whole step down is more for a heavy sound, but my jazzmaster seems to generally sound better when half step down.

    The main reason in a band would be to help vocalists.
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  • BidleyBidley Frets: 2912

    Yep, me and my band play in Eb and although it irritated me to begin with, I prefer it to standard tuning now. Just sounds that little bit darker, and the tension is perfect with .10s for me.

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  • mike_lmike_l Frets: 5700
    Didn't *a lot* of bar bands used to tune to Eb to stop bar owners joining in on Harmonica?

    Ringleader of the Cambridge cartel, pedal champ and king of the dirt boxes (down to 21) 

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  • RocknRollDaveRocknRollDave Frets: 6432
    edited January 2014
    We do a couple of songs in Eb, to help the singer out.

    I can totally understand why dropping the key of a song helps a singer, but I can't see how 1 semitone makes much difference..
    Or to put it another way, whenever our singer's deciding on a key for a new song (and doing first dances, there are a LOT of new songs throughout the year), I always try and get him to avoid # or b keys, but he always says it has to suit his voice.
    I don't get why a song that is too high in E is fine in Eb but wouldn't be fine in D...? Does that extra semitone really matter?!


    #clearlynotasinger

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  • CirrusCirrus Frets: 8481
    edited January 2014
    vasselmeyer;147089" said:
    One semitone is hardly going to make any difference at all.

    RocknRollDave;147348" said:
    I don't get why a song that is too high in E is fine in Eb but wouldn't be fine in D...? Does that extra semitone really matter?!

    I think it makes a huge difference.

    After playing in standard tuning for about 4 years in my band, about 3 months ago I suggested we go a semi tone down just to try it out on a weekend when we had three gigs in a row.

    So the week before hand we tuned down and ran through our usual setlist. Fuck me, what a difference it makes. On the first run through I had to concentrate so hard to hit the right notes on harmonies - the muscle memory in my vocal chords and chest really had to be checked. The timbre of the entire band changed too - the sound was thicker, richer and more melancholy. On some songs it made a really positive difference , on some I wouldn't be able to say which tuning I preferred, and one song became totally shit - just way too muddy to the point that we dropped it.

    Vocally, it's not just a question of whether or not you can hit that one high C# if you drop it down to C. Every single note for the entire set is a little bit easier, which means when you get to that C you can hit it with more confidence not just because it's a semi tone lower, but because your vocal chords are less strained in the 30 minutes leading up to it - makes a biiiig diference. You might even find that where before the C# would have been a struggle, you can go higher briefly because overall you've got more left to give.

    So why not go a tone lower, avoid the # key, and make it easier to transpose? Sometimes that works, and sometimes our singer finds that he wants his voice to be strained just the right amount - too high and it's choked, too low and he can't throw the energy into the lines that he wants to. So it's very voice and song dependent, but sometimes that kind of stuff really matters.
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  • @Cirrus - Great post, thanks! I shall be more tolerant of our singer's key requests now!

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  • EdGripEdGrip Frets: 736
    edited January 2014
    I like Eb, feels good, sounds good, but any note-knowledge of the fretboard that I've inadvertently gained is lost, and that frustrates me a bit. 
    A couple of months ago I tuned down to C to learn No One Knows and I haven't gone back. It feels like home. That's with 11s on a 25" scale. I'd never tried it before because I always associated low tunings with nu-metal and chugga-chugga bands that I wasn't into.
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  • beed84beed84 Frets: 2403
    Well I've given it ago and I think it's great.  I agree that it does sound a little darker and obviously easier to play, but like EdGrip says, knowledge of the fretboard - in a theoretical sense - is somewhat lost.  Although, it'd be nice to stay in this tuning I don't want to get too comfortable with it and then find that standard tuning feels weird.
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  • IanSavageIanSavage Frets: 1319
    I'm down in D standard for anything I have to sing, my voice is bollocksed. 
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  • stickyfiddlestickyfiddle Frets: 26743
    I'm usually in standard on electrics, but my acoustic lives in D standard. Something about the way the tension and resonance changes makes it sound miles better.

    In terms of the vocals thing; we changed a lot of keys with our old band to help whoever was singing. A lot ended up in D that were in E originally.
    The Assumptions - UAE party band for all your rock & soul desires
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  • When we had our band back in the 90's, we were tuned down to C#, so the Singer/Guitarist could sing his own songs in the keys/positions he wanted to.

    It must have seemed weird to the audience as we were not a hardcore band, we played Melodic Rock.

    I wouldn't want to be de-tuning nowadays and I would want to play my guitars I am used to, so I would probably bypass buying one of those Roland-Fender Jobbies that come with different tunings at the turn of a knob etc.

    They must be used by some though, handy if you don't mind what guitar you gig with.
    Only a Fool Would Say That.
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  • CatthanCatthan Frets: 355
    I think there is this impression that strats with 11s feel like 10s and sound better when tuned in Eb. 
    SRV and Scott Henderson prefer ("-ed") it. 

    I liked it more too with my strats but never felt like doing it with other gtrs. And with 11s only. 
    Whenever the singer can't cope we just transpose. Thankfully he's got a good range and a good falsetto. 
    So far voicings and chords haven't been fucked to the point that I'd really benefit from tuning down. 
    And wouldn't do it to accommodate just one song
    Also. whenever I tuned to Eb I played everything in the right pitch-note aka a fret higher (a bit weird).

    I'm always tempted though to tune my Jazz gtr to Eb and then all the horn based flat notes tunes would be in the easy positions and I'd become a bit more comfortable with my impo.. 

    Funny though how my brain understands how to play in the dotted frets and struggles with the non-dotted ones.. Oh well..

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  • TunezTunez Frets: 15
    @Cirrus - Great post, thanks! I shall be more tolerant of our singer's key requests now!
    NEVER openly admit to sympathy for a singer! They're difficult enough at the best of times, you'll only encourage them!
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  • DeijavooDeijavoo Frets: 3298
    I personally love tuning to Eb and find concert a little strange when I play.  

    Just how I like it. 
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  • PolarityManPolarityMan Frets: 7273
    When Im using a standard tuning it's Eb but 80% of stuff i play is drop tuned c#. mostly cos it makes palm muted chuggy stuff sound better but tbh most of our proggier stuff would work jsut as happily in drop-D.
    ဈǝᴉʇsɐoʇǝsǝǝɥɔဪቌ
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