recommendation for a uk bodyblank seller that might be able to cut out a basic outline shape?

GSPBASSES

If you send me a paper full-scale drawing of what you want I can certainly make you a body blank from that. But I would strongly recommend I make an MDF patent first. The problem with one-offs not making any jigs or patterns if something goes very wrong and you have to start again it could all go wrong again. Of course if everything goes right you might want to make another one. I can't give you a price until I know what wood you want it made from. As far as jigs go, if it's just the shape of the body is about £50, plus the cost of the wood. It only becomes very expensive if you have custom jigs made for the control, pickup and neck pocket made. Generally speaking, if I'm asked to do a one-off guitar. I make a jig for the outline of the body and hope I can use jigs from other builds, I have jigs for more or less every pickup you can buy, a huge range of neck jigs, normally I can use what I already have to keep the cost down. This is the sort of thing you're looking for PM me I should warn you I'm off sick with a bad back at the moment, so not much is being made, I also have a huge backlog of guitars to make.

vale

@Sporky "I wouldn't recommend using that sort of bit in a handheld router. I have a 60mm long solid carbide bit that I use on my CNC router. The forces are enormous so if something goes wrong it tends to go very wrong very quickly. At full depth I don't do more than a 0.5mm finishing pass."

thankq for for that safety advice sporky. how long would you say is safe for a hand router? it's 1/4 shank & has the plunger & set depth facility. & am a beginner really.

@Nomad "Templates are good because they're much easier to work up to a nice outline freehand than 2" of hardwood. You can then rough cut the body wood and use the template to rout it to final size."

thankq nomad, i'm thinking more about templates as a result of this thread & watching youtbe clips about using them. what thickness do you find works best? 1cm ish or more?

@GSPBASSES thankq for the advice gsp. an mdf template i shall go for. poverty means i can't really afford the custom option, though am sure you would do a first class job. & i think it would be interesting to do a template now i really get what they are about. not just for an inital outline but a valuable construction tool. hope your back gets better soon btw.

Sporky

vale said:

@Sporky "I wouldn't recommend using that sort of bit in a handheld router. I have a 60mm long solid carbide bit that I use on my CNC router. The forces are enormous so if something goes wrong it tends to go very wrong very quickly. At full depth I don't do more than a 0.5mm finishing pass."

thankq for for that safety advice sporky. how long would you say is safe for a hand router? it's 1/4 shank & has the plunger & set depth facility. & am a beginner really.

Generally I think you want steps of 5mm or less, so you can rout the outline of a body in 8-10 steps. You will need a long bit for that, but you can make it safer by routing from one side to half depth, then from the other side.

vale

@Sporky thankq Sporky. i'm thinking about 4cm body thickness so will get a 3cm pattern bit (bearings at top) if i don't have one in my box & attack from top & bottom. how do you line up the template so top & bottom halves align without a mismatch?
& the bit i didn't know the name for (edges) was a roundover bit. wills easy guitar saves the day.

Sporky

There are a few approaches, but you can't attack the thing in a single pass at 3cm depth. You'll need a few different bits of different lengths, and to go down in 5mm steps. It's probably also a good plan to get various sizes of bearing so that the first passes have bearings bigger than the bit, so you're cutting less wood per pass.

WezV

It really depends on a few things.  

If your initial saw cut is pretty accurate you can do deeper passes with the router.

if your template is thicker you can get away starting with longer bits

You can do bigger passes with the grain compared to against as there is less risk of tear out.


8-10 steps is probably a good starting point until you are familiar with the tools,  but it is really way more than you should need to do.

WezV

Ido use a few bits these days, all in separate routers

a milling bit - great for initial template work


http://www.axminster.co.uk/axcaliber-milling-cutter-with-top-bearing-952561?gclid=CPfK6dbgl9ICFSwq0wodSKgJ1g


then a longer version to go most of the way down the side of the body - you won't need the template anymore
http://www.axminster.co.uk/axcaliber-flush-trim-router-cutters-top-bearing-1-2-shank-ax829112


then flip the body over and use a bottom bearing bit
http://www.axminster.co.uk/axcaliber-flush-trim-cutters-bottom-bearing-ax803281

Sporky

WezV said:

8-10 steps is probably a good starting point until you are familiar with the tools,  but it is really way more than you should need to do.

I do not disagree - if you've cut close to the line you can go deeper with the router.

vale

@Sporky & @WezV a big thank you for the routing advice & pics/links to the right bits.
i've got one with the bearing at the top & used it playing around to see what it did. i will get another with bearing at the bottom & see how far i get with those for the outline.
& will order some different size bearing collars to go with my non collar bits, just to see what they do. ebay basic first & then if i feel confident commit to decent long-lasting bits.
the roundover part looks trickiest but will watch vids & practice that a lot forst on scrap to get a feel for it.
now thinking seriously about making a template. was just a daydream this time last week. this site gives me ideas, damn it.

Nomad

vale said:

thankq nomad, i'm thinking more about templates as a result of this thread & watching youtbe clips about using them. what thickness do you find works best? 1cm ish or more?

From what I've gathered, 9mm is quite popular. I happen to use 12mm because that seemed like a good idea at the time when I was wandering round the DIY place.

Template thickness depends on a few things: the length of the cutter, the height of the bearing, the plunge depth of the router and how deep you need to cut. If you wanted to make a shallow pocket, say 20mm, and had a cutter 50mm long with a 5mm bearing at the top, then you'd need a thick template so that the bearing has something to run against. If you were running the cutter around the outside of a guitar body, the template can be much thinner if you were doing it at one depth.

For a pocket, a shorter cutter would allow the template to be much thinner, but you might run out of plunge depth. If you want to make a pocket that's deeper than the plunge depth of the router, then you either need to switch to a thinner template or use a longer cutter...

These are all 19mm diameter (and 1/2" shank). The short one on the left will do shallow pockets, and I can switch to the middle one to go deeper (without changing the template, and hence not risk misalignment in doing so). The big one on the right is for going round the outside of the body (that's wood crud on the edge, not rust).

If your plunge depth isn't enough, there's also some scope to fiddle the length by not inserting the cutter all the way into the collet on the router, but you need to be sure that there is still enough inserted for the collet to get a good grip of the tool. In other words, start with the cutter fully inserted and cut until you run out of plunge, then slacken the cutter and pull it out a bit before retightening.

This may be obvious, even to a router noob, but is worth saying in any case: ALWAYS unplug the router when changing tools. Do it consciously - pull the plug and put it on the bench in front of you. Then try starting the router to confirm that it is indeed unplugged. This should be a standard part of your tool changing procedure as much as finding the spanner to slacken the collet.

I would also recommend keeping a pair of stout leather working gloves handy if you need to grip the cutter and give it a twist to free it from the collet. They can get jammed and the pressure required to slacken them is enough to cut into you even though they feel okay to handle with bare hands when not in the machine. Don't use a metal tool like pliers - too much risk of damaging the cutting edges. If it feels really stiff, be careful with getting a good grip and putting more force on it - they'll get through leather gloves as well, so check whether the gloves are getting damaged. If they are, you can consider something like putting a couple of bits of scrap wood in a vice and gripping the cutter that way (plunge the cutter, insert between bits of wood, nip up the vice, spindle lock on, give the machine a careful twist to free the shank of the cutter). If it's a bottom bearing cutter, the bearing needs to get past the bits of wood or it will just spin. Could also use a clamp instead of a vice.

vale

@Nomad thank you nomad.

concept of templates & template bits is starting to sink in (to the deep dark waters of my mind). your pictures help too. i think i know what i need for templates now.
& going with a 1/4" roundover with bearing obvs, as that seems to be a subtle roundover. just enough to knock the sharpness off but preserve the outline. 1/2 looks too much in pics.

as to a bit for the sled process to thin the body. i read that (obvs) wider is best as it means fewer passes. so will go for 1" wide diameter. & round edged so fewer tracks left behind. does that fit with your experience?
to avoid messing my kitchen up & annoying neighbours i wish i could hand plane but i think it's a craftmans thing. router & sled best for amateurs.

on sleds, this looks neat. adjustable too so useable in other contexts. & i like the way he uses plastic breadboards for runners. ingenious & super smooth.

& how happy is this guy? his cheeky way cheers me right up.

Nomad

vale said:

@Nomad thank you nomad.

concept of templates & template bits is starting to sink in (to the deep dark waters of my mind). your pictures help too. i think i know what i need for templates now.

Something I forgot to mention (but may have been covered already) is that you can also remove the template and use the side of the cavity that's already been routed as the guide for the bearing. In a sense, reducing the template thickness to zero as a way of getting more depth when the router's plunge limit has been reached.

And don't forget that templates can be used to make templates. For these two in my symmetrical double cut build...

...I drew out the outline on one half of one template first, then cut out that shape and sanded it smooth(er) on the cheapie spindle sander setup in the photo. This was then placed onto the second bit of MDF and the half shape drawn round the top template. The top was then flipped over and the other half drawn (both using centre lines to line the templates up). The second template was then cut out outside the line on both halves to remove waste, and the two screwed together. The good half of the top template was used as a router guide to get one half the bottom template to size, and then the top was flipped over and screwed down again to rout the other half of the second template. The second template was then used as the guide to rout the second side of the first template.

Important in doing this was getting the holes bang on the centre lines. Both drilled on the first template, and one on the second template. Then put one screw in through both templates, pivot them against each other until the centre lines match, and use a transfer punch to mark through the second hole in the top template to position it's partner in the bottom template. That puts both sets of holes on the centre lines and at exactly the same distance apart. The holes in the top template are clearance holes for the diameter of the screws (just clear and no more - no slop), and the ones in the bottom template are pilot holes so that the screws will grip.

Transfer punches are like centre punches, but much more accurate. They're basically straight round rods with no taper, and with a stubby point at the end. They come in sets in 0.5mm increments and are quite cheap (about a tenner, for lots of sizes). The idea is to pick one that's a snug sliding fit in the hole you want to transfer - if my clearance hole for the screw is, say, 3.5mm, I use a 3.5mm punch. When you tap it with a hammer to make the mark, it's bang in the centre because the snug fit means that the punch can't move around laterally within the hole. It's easy, fast precision and way better than things like trying to get the end of an awl that's a smaller diameter than the hole centred by feel, or wiggling a pencil around to try and draw a circle to use as a guide for centring (often get a badly drawn circle, and you're still trying to guesstimate the true centre). These sets of transfer punches are normally aimed at metalworkers, but I've found them great for wood.

This is the sort of thing...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Silverline-250575-Transfer-Punch-Set-x/dp/B003TNWWDS

Worth every penny.

Sporky

Transfer punches are enormously useful things.