Trem Springs?

paulmapp8306

Currently have 4 on my Prs,  but even with the claw fully screwed in the trem still won't sit flat.

Do I need high tension/stiff Springs,  and if do where can I get them.

Or,  will adding a 5th spring do the trick.

CloudNine

Presumably you don't have a 5th spring to try?

Would seriously doubt you need any special springs. 

sweepy

What string gauge are you using and can you post a pic of how the bridge is sitting 

ICBM

paulmapp8306 said:

Currently have 4 on my Prs,  but even with the claw fully screwed in the trem still won't sit flat.

Do I need high tension/stiff Springs,  and if do where can I get them.

Or,  will adding a 5th spring do the trick.

Don't try to make the bridge sit flat on a PRS - it's not good for the knife edges.

If you want the bridge not to move, you need to put a block in the cavity which will hold it at the proper angle.

guitars4you

ICBM said:

paulmapp8306 said:

Currently have 4 on my Prs,  but even with the claw fully screwed in the trem still won't sit flat.

Do I need high tension/stiff Springs,  and if do where can I get them.

Or,  will adding a 5th spring do the trick.

Don't try to make the bridge sit flat on a PRS - it's not good for the knife edges.

If you want the bridge not to move, you need to put a block in the cavity which will hold it at the proper angle.

endorse that - not designed to be a trem system that sits flat on the body

do you want it to not move at all ? - or do you want down pitch only ?

If the former, then a 'small wooden block' like a domino, can be be inserted between the trem block and the body - Done correctly the trem plate will still be in the correct 'floating' position (ie effectively parallel to the body), but you'll have no trem movement at all - simple to reverse at a later date if required

If the later then not really possible with the PRS trem system

ICBM

You can do either, you just need to use one or two blocks. For down-only you need a block between the front (spring) side of the block and the cavity wall, and for no movement at all you need that plus another one behind.

It's a little tricky to get the blocks the right thickness though - I can't remember the measurements. Essentially when they're correctly fitted the bridge block will be held exactly at right-angles to the body so the bridgeplate will be parallel.

guitars4you

ICBM said:

You can do either, you just need to use one or two blocks. For down-only you need a block between the front (spring) side of the block and the cavity wall, and for no movement at all you need that plus another one behind.

It's a little tricky to get the blocks the right thickness though - I can't remember the measurements. Essentially when they're correctly fitted the bridge block will be held exactly at right-angles to the body so the bridgeplate will be parallel.

just had a quick google visit on this and came across this - https://www.thomann.de/gb/allparts_tremolno_bp2007010.htm?glp=1&gclid=CP7pwfLjj9ICFYKw7QodaaIGIQ - never heard of it before - any comments @icbm - looks like it might be useful

ICBM

There's a thread about it somewhere. They look like a good idea on paper, but don't work well enough in practice. The basic problem is that you can't get the screws tight enough to stop it rattling and creeping out of position.

paulmapp8306

I don't mean flat, I mean parallel with the body.

It was fine until I put 10s on.

ICBM

paulmapp8306 said:

I don't mean flat, I mean parallel with the body.

It was fine until I put 10s on.

Four springs should be enough with 10s. Have you got the bridge saddles up very high?

fendergibson

paulmapp8306 said:

I don't mean flat, I mean parallel with the body.

It was fine until I put 10s on.

Somethings amiss then, go see a trusted tech 

drwiddly

Another thing you need to watch with the PRS trem is the notched screws. The six pivot screws have a notch in them and they need to be correctly lined up with the knife edges and they need to be level. If in doubt take it to a tech but there is a set up guide on the PRS website.

paulmapp8306

ICBM said:

paulmapp8306 said:

I don't mean flat, I mean parallel with the body.

It was fine until I put 10s on.

Four springs should be enough with 10s. Have you got the bridge saddles up very high?

They are pretty high actually.  I raised them recently as I wanted a higher action.  Maybe too much

paulmapp8306

drwiddly said:

Another thing you need to watch with the PRS trem is the notched screws. The six pivot screws have a notch in them and they need to be correctly lined up with the knife edges and they need to be level. If in doubt take it to a tech but there is a set up guide on the PRS website.

The screws havent been touched in the 18 years Ive had the guitar.

ICBM

paulmapp8306 said:

ICBM said:

Have you got the bridge saddles up very high?

They are pretty high actually.  I raised them recently as I wanted a higher action.  Maybe too much

Try lowering them slightly - the balance of forces between the strings and springs is directly related to the saddle height because that's the distance from the pivot on the top side. Even a small increase makes quite a big difference.

drwiddly

paulmapp8306 said:

drwiddly said:

Another thing you need to watch with the PRS trem is the notched screws. The six pivot screws have a notch in them and they need to be correctly lined up with the knife edges and they need to be level. If in doubt take it to a tech but there is a set up guide on the PRS website.

The screws havent been touched in the 18 years Ive had the guitar.

That's no guarantee they're still properly aligned.

richardhomer

The PRS trem usually works perfectly - so something must be awry with the set up.

The higher you raise the saddles, the more tension will be required on the springs, to counteract the string tension. Likewise, if the string gauge is increased.

In years gone by, PRS shipped with 9s - so the factory set-up on an 18 year old guitar is likely to be optimised for these.

You might find raising the screws at the leading edge of the bridge plate - and dropping the saddles - achieves a higher action without compromising the functionality of the trem. The key thing is to adjust the six screws without string (or ideally spring) tension. The grooves machined into them should be perfectly in line, to allow the bridge to pivot accurately. The knife-edges in the bridge can be easily damaged under tension - so be careful.

Suitably levelled - with a couple of springs attached - the trem system should pivot freely. At this point, you can string up and add the other springs. The leading edged height screws determine where the fulcrum point is - set higher - with the saddles lower - it should be easy to get the bridge plate parellel with four springs.

paulmapp8306

Think I'm sorted, for now.  Took strings off and raised ths 6 screws.  

They were lower than stated on the Prs guide,  must have been adjusted when it had a fret dress snd set up at dome point.  

I lowered the saddles and re strung.  I did find a 5th spring which I fitted and had to loosen the claw a few turns to balance,  but I don't kind a stiffer trem.

Trem is now parallel to the body,  and the low e pulls up to f# which is as per the Prs guide.

Might take a spring off at the weekend and see if it balanced with 4.