Boss DS1

Dave_Mc

thermionic said:

ICBM said:

The major problem with the ME-5 is that the overdrive/distortion module isn't as good as the pedals because it has no tone control. I always found that a huge problem on it and why I was never able to get on with it - you can use the main EQ, but it sounds different anyway, and even if it didn't it then stops you using that independently or as an overall tone setting. Such a daft omission.

The tone control on the DS-1 is quite unique I think. The signal is split in two and fed into low-pass and high-pass filters and mixed by the tone pot. At 12 o'clock it goes through both equally, which results in a mid-scoop. Not something you can recreate with a more conventional eq section later on.

That's interesting. I remember when trying it I sort of felt like they were trying to get both bass and treble controls into the one tone control... which is a laudable idea, except (for me, anyway) it didn't quite work and it only really sounds good with the tone knob between 10-11 o'clock.

That's more or less what you're saying, isn't it?

ICBM said:

thermionic said:

They're cheap enough!

(as long as you're not suckered into unfounded MIJ snobbery)

The early MIJ one I had a while back definitely sounded better than a later one I compared it to - chunkier and less scooped - although it could possibly just be component tolerance variation. I probably shouldn't have sold it.

Didn't the earliest ones use a single op-amp, rather than the dual one the later ones use?

(I haven't tried any MIJ ones, that's just what I've read.)

thermionic

Are you thinking of the OD-1 Dave? The very early ones had a quad opamp chip rather than a dual opamp chip. The extra two opamps were used as input/output buffers (usually done by single transistors).

AxeWieldingBastard

I'm loving the DS1 at the moment. Sounds tits going into a ZVEX Channel 2; it's got a fuzzy edge to it, which I like. 

Some of the mods seem to aim at removing the fizz from the distortion, but thats a no, no for me. What other available pedals are based on the DS1 sound? Would be nice to find something with the same distortion, but more versatile tone stack. I saw a demo for the Empress Distortion recently and it sounds like DS1 on the mild setting, and RAT on the crunch setting; would like to give one a go. Anything else out there?

ICBM

AxeWieldingBastard said:

What other available pedals are based on the DS1 sound? Would be nice to find something with the same distortion, but more versatile tone stack.

Digitech Hot Head is the obvious one.

AxeWieldingBastard

Will definitely have a look at that one of those, thanks. 

siraxeman

ICBM said:

AxeWieldingBastard said:

What other available pedals are based on the DS1 sound? Would be nice to find something with the same distortion, but more versatile tone stack.

Digitech Hot Head is the obvious one.

As is the Vox Satchurator....slightly tweaked (for the better) but still no escaping what it is - a DS-1 in a bigger squarer box. Remember when I had a Vox Satchurator some years ago, during a rehearsal I had an OD pedal for my rhythm sound and I come to do a solo and stomped off the OD pedal and then turned on the Satchurator and promptly disappeard from the mix due to the mids being missing. Of course I should've stacked them - then I'd not have dropped out the mix...but stil it taught me something there - when you lose the mids you need more volume to force it through the mix.

Dave_Mc

thermionic said:

Are you thinking of the OD-1 Dave? The very early ones had a quad opamp chip rather than a dual opamp chip. The extra two opamps were used as input/output buffers (usually done by single transistors).

No, the DS1. It's possible my info is faulty...

But looking here, it seems to claim the early ones had a single op-amp chip: https://buildyourownclone.com/collections/distortion/products/orangedist

ICBM said:

AxeWieldingBastard said:

What other available pedals are based on the DS1 sound? Would be nice to find something with the same distortion, but more versatile tone stack.

Digitech Hot Head is the obvious one.

Yeah they sound virtually identical (probably well within component tolerances). When I got to try the two head to head, the DS1 was maybe marginally sweeter-sounding. But it was really subtle, and countering that is the fact that the Hot Head has a bass control as well, and (when it was still available) was half the price.

gearaddict

So, this thread made me dig out my Keeley DS1 and try and like it again. Nope - still don't understand why people like this horrible fizzy thing. Silver lining though...I came across a Marshall Guvnor 2 I had forgotten I had and thought I'd give it a spin...wow...that pedal sounds really great. It's on my pedalboard now. I think I prefer it to the drive channels on my amp. Awesome! Everyone get one instead of a DS1. 

ICBM

Dave_Mc said:

But looking here, it seems to claim the early ones had a single op-amp chip: https://buildyourownclone.com/collections/distortion/products/orangedist

Yes, that's correct. I think the early ones had different clipping diodes too, although I'm not sure about that. I probably should look into it...

cruxiform

gearaddict said:

I came across a Marshall Guvnor 2 I had forgotten I had and thought I'd give it a spin...wow...that pedal sounds really great. It's on my pedalboard now. I think I prefer it to the drive channels on my amp. Awesome! Everyone get one instead of a DS1. 

I always big-up the Jackhammer pedal too. It has a full range of Marshall tones and sounds fantastic through the front end of my Blackstar HT40 on it's clean channel. 

gearaddict

I keep telling anyone who'll listen how great my Marshall Echohead delay pedal is too. People pay silly money for delay pedals and the Echohead sounds great.

cruxiform

Wis awarded for that. In a similar vein I have a Digitech Digidelay that I paid £40 for. Outstanding delay pedal.

thermionic

Dave_Mc said:

thermionic said:

Are you thinking of the OD-1 Dave? The very early ones had a quad opamp chip rather than a dual opamp chip. The extra two opamps were used as input/output buffers (usually done by single transistors).

No, the DS1. It's possible my info is faulty...

But looking here, it seems to claim the early ones had a single op-amp chip: https://buildyourownclone.com/collections/distortion/products/orangedist

Interesting, that looks like quite a difference, and may account for the "MIJ sound better than the newer ones" stories.

ICBM

thermionic said:

Interesting, that looks like quite a difference, and may account for the "MIJ sound better than the newer ones" stories.

It's not as much of a difference as it looks - the first half of the dual op-amp is configured as a unity-gain buffer, so it's not really doing a lot. It may not be doing 'nothing' though.

AxeWieldingBastard

Dave_Mc said:

thermionic said:

Are you thinking of the OD-1 Dave? The very early ones had a quad opamp chip rather than a dual opamp chip. The extra two opamps were used as input/output buffers (usually done by single transistors).

No, the DS1. It's possible my info is faulty...

But looking here, it seems to claim the early ones had a single op-amp chip: https://buildyourownclone.com/collections/distortion/products/orangedist

ICBM said:

AxeWieldingBastard said:

What other available pedals are based on the DS1 sound? Would be nice to find something with the same distortion, but more versatile tone stack.

Digitech Hot Head is the obvious one.

Yeah they sound virtually identical (probably well within component tolerances). When I got to try the two head to head, the DS1 was maybe marginally sweeter-sounding. But it was really subtle, and countering that is the fact that the Hot Head has a bass control as well, and (when it was still available) was half the price.

Purchased me a rather battered looking Hot Head off the 'bay yesterday. Thanks for the tip fellas.

Just out of interest, how long have these been out of production for?

ICBM

AxeWieldingBastard said:

Just out of interest, how long have these been out of production for?

Don't know - a few years I think.

If it matters they're also an excellent last-ditch-backup pedal to have, because the 'mixer' output can be run directly to the PA or some other available non-guitar amp and sounds tolerable.

Reverend

MXR's 78 custom Baddass is I think based on a modded DS1?

steamabacus

AxeWieldingBastard said:

I'm loving the DS1 at the moment. Sounds tits going into a ZVEX Channel 2; it's got a fuzzy edge to it, which I like. 

Some of the mods seem to aim at removing the fizz from the distortion, but thats a no, no for me. What other available pedals are based on the DS1 sound? Would be nice to find something with the same distortion, but more versatile tone stack. I saw a demo for the Empress Distortion recently and it sounds like DS1 on the mild setting, and RAT on the crunch setting; would like to give one a go. Anything else out there?

@AxeWieldingBastard ;

I have a vfe Dark Horse which is a modded DS-1 cicuit - see here ( if you go to 'older versions' it's the #2 version). It has a lot of tweakability with clipping options, bass and treble controls in addition to the overall tone and an internal trimpot for compression.

I'm not sure if vfe are still making them but I'd be willing to let mine go - it was a gift and I'm more into boosts and overdrives than full on distortion (and I'm after raising funds for a Two Notes Torpedo). Message me if you're interested and I can give you more details. pics, etc.

gearaddict

Is there a way of telling if a DS1 is a genuine Keeley mod? Mine used to belong to my nephew and I was with him in Andertons when he bought it. I remember there being a Keeley label when he bought it but it has obviously been lost over the years. I was thinking of selling it and someone is bound to ask for proof that it's a genuine Keeley. I had a look inside but there's nothing obvious.

Dave_Mc

ICBM said:

Dave_Mc said:

But looking here, it seems to claim the early ones had a single op-amp chip: https://buildyourownclone.com/collections/distortion/products/orangedist

Yes, that's correct. I think the early ones had different clipping diodes too, although I'm not sure about that. I probably should look into it...

Yeah me too The irony is (I think, from the last time I looked) it's actually really easy to find a schematic of the original, single op-amp DS1. It's a lot harder to find a schematic of the current version

thermionic said:

Interesting, that looks like quite a difference, and may account for the "MIJ sound better than the newer ones" stories.

ICBM said:

thermionic said:

Interesting, that looks like quite a difference, and may account for the "MIJ sound better than the newer ones" stories.

It's not as much of a difference as it looks - the first half of the dual op-amp is configured as a unity-gain buffer, so it's not really doing a lot. It may not be doing 'nothing' though.

Yeah (to both of you). This is getting well beyond my pay grade, but it looks like the people saying, "No difference" aren't right, but at the same time it may be a superficial or subtle difference, as ICBM says.

AxeWieldingBastard said:

Purchased me a rather battered looking Hot Head off the 'bay yesterday. Thanks for the tip fellas.

Just out of interest, how long have these been out of production for?

Nice

I'm not sure exactly either, but "Not that long ago" is what my gut says. You might well still be able to find new old stock in shops, for example. I'd think maybe 18 months, or maybe slightly more? It doesn't seem that long ago to me, but I'm pretty terrible with dates...

Reverend said:

MXR's 78 custom Baddass is I think based on a modded DS1?

Yeah I think so. That's the word on the net, anyway (I don't think I've seen a schematic).