Will solid state amp technology ever get close to 75% of the tone of a Fender Super Reverb 4 x 10 ?

Telejester

All I hear when it comes to the solid state amps is hey it's got the crushing gain of a mesa mkiii and oh man those scooped mids. Can a solid state reproduce 75% of the tonal heaven that comes from a 4 X 10 super reverb in 2017, well I say without hesitation resoundingly not even close.

So.......Yeah they can do the flubby gain thing, but how long until they can reproduce the breathtaking clarity and dynamics a la super reverb ?

richardhomer

You mean like a 3 x 10?

ICBM

Yes. In my opinion much closer than you think.

It doesn't even have to be a modern solid-state amp - recently I A/B'd a 70s Fender Silverface Twin with JBLs against my mid-80s Peavey Special. The Peavey could nail the tone of the Fender dead-on, except when pushed so hard they started to break up… which is at a volume no-one in their right mind would ever use nowadays. The clarity and dynamics of the Peavey are astounding, if anything it was capable of slightly more clean headroom than the Fender.

A lot of the problem with solid-state amps is that they're often fitted with poor speakers. The Peavey has an Eminence Delta Pro in it, which is worth more than the amp...

Pigknows

I'd say at least 95℅. I have a lab series L7 and an early 70s Super Reverb. Lab series can sound almost identical, is more versatile, and actually sounds better in some applications. 

The l7 can also be warm and the onboard overdriven sound is better than the Super's.

Someone has has posted as comparison of the two amps on YouTube.

I like solid state amps.

ThePrettyDamned

Awesome gain is really where solid state amps lose out imo. 

Lots of great, dynamic solid state amps around. Peavey bandit and specials (they're great), the boss katana (super cleans are not the strongest point compared to dynamic edge of breakup stuff) and the orange crush pro amps are all excellent. 

I've heard the old Laney ss kit is good too. 

ennspek

I've never heard anyone say that about SS amps personally. The answer is yes incidentally.

beowulf

Shocker as £200 amps continue to not be as good as £1600 ones

koneguitarist

ThePrettyDamned said:

Awesome gain is really where solid state amps lose out imo. 

Actually I think that's where SS amps sound as good if not better that valve amps. 
That area between Clean and overdriven is the hardest to replicate though Peavey do a good job.
i think it all comes down to what the player feels standing in front of amp, the audience will have no idea. 

ThePrettyDamned

koneguitarist said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

Awesome gain is really where solid state amps lose out imo. 

Actually I think that's where SS amps sound as good if not better that valve amps. 
That area between Clean and overdriven is the hardest to replicate though Peavey do a good job.
i think it all comes down to what the player feels standing in front of amp, the audience will have no idea. 

Actually, yes, you're probably right. I tend not to think of that as my df2 does that job no matter the amp really... 

Crushing gain is best served with a 6505 imo. But there are good sounding high gain amps - the amt box is supposed to be exceptional. 

The boss katana (yes, I know I've mentioned it already) does do that slightly crunchy, dynamic clean dirty thing. And well! It's not a proper solid state amp though. The orange crush pro is supposed to be good too, but I only tried it clean and filthy... 

professorben

I personally hope SS Amps don't fall to that level of tone quality. 

earwighoney

The question I would like to ask is whether valve amps will ever be able to reproduce the tonal quality of the SS Marshall MG30CDR. 

digitalscream

koneguitarist said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

Awesome gain is really where solid state amps lose out imo. 

Actually I think that's where SS amps sound as good if not better that valve amps. 
That area between Clean and overdriven is the hardest to replicate though Peavey do a good job.
i think it all comes down to what the player feels standing in front of amp, the audience will have no idea. 

I've never heard a SS amp with fantastic high-gain tones (note that I'm not talking about modellers here). That, to me, is incredibly strange since some distortion pedals sound more amp-like than a lot of amps. The Bogner Ecstasy Red is my primary example here - when recorded with a SS Fender Twin-alike preamp, it sounds better than my Jet City amps. The Suhr Riot is pretty close, too.

koneguitarist

I am not entirely sure but aren't mist valve amps that are high gain using SS op amps to achieve this, I know the JCM 800 and 900 series used SS for extra gain.. Maybe @ICBM and  others may be able to answer this. 

digitalscream

koneguitarist said:

I am not entirely sure but aren't mist valve amps that are high gain using SS op amps to achieve this, I know the JCM 800 and 900 series used SS for extra gain.. Maybe @ICBM and  others may be able to answer this. 

The JCM900 did, but I thought the JCM800's preamp was a valve-only signal path...?

I know the Soldano and Jet City amps don't have op-amps, and neither do the Victory amps.

ICBM

koneguitarist said:

I am not entirely sure but aren't mist valve amps that are high gain using SS op amps to achieve this, I know the JCM 800 and 900 series used SS for extra gain.. Maybe @ICBM and  others may be able to answer this. 

No, not most - some do, but they're probably the minority even now. JCM800s actually don't, it's only the 900 Dual Reverbs among Marshalls - even the non-reverb 900s only really use them for the FX loop and master volume control, not to add 'gain' as such. All these - and the Jubilees, although not the plain single-channel 800s - also use solid-state diode clipping to create more distortion (not gain!) though. It's debatable which of these has the 'worse' effect on the tone, or whether either - or both - mean the amp is a hybrid.

Or whether it matters. There are some great-sounding true hybrid amps too, like the old Music Man range which I'm sure you know about - these have pure solid-state gain and only a valve power section.

FreddieVanHalen

ICBM said:

A lot of the problem with solid-state amps is that they're often fitted with poor speakers. The Peavey has an Eminence Delta Pro in it, which is worth more than the amp...

@ICBM isn't the Delta Pro meant to be a PA speaker?

I'm staring to get really into my own Special 130 - it has the stock Scorpion right now - reckon it's worth upgrading and is there a better choice than the Delta Pro?

ICBM

FreddieVanHalen said:

@ICBM isn't the Delta Pro meant to be a PA speaker?

Yes. It has a thick, chunky tone and not too much top-end, which neatly offsets the slightly harsh mids and shrill top-end the amp can have through a more 'normal' speaker. I just tried it because it's a 120W amp (mine's the earlier model) so I needed to find a 150W or higher speaker, and I had it anyway so I thought I would try it, expecting it to be too dull… wrong. It's also extremely efficient, which is fun in an amp which was already as loud as a small jet engine .

FreddieVanHalen said:

I'm staring to get really into my own Special 130 - it has the stock Scorpion right now - reckon it's worth upgrading and is there a better choice than the Delta Pro?

Not that I know of - I even prefer it to the EVM12L I borrowed to try but didn't really want to spend that much money on. I actually have another one which I'd be happy to sell you, but if I shipped it to you it would probably cost more than buying a new one, they're not that expensive.

FreddieVanHalen

Thanks @ICBM - Lean Business seem to do them for about £120 delivered. Time to give this a go, the neighbours will love it!

Winny_Pooh

professorben said:

I personally hope SS Amps don't fall to that level of tone quality. 

Quoted for silliness

ICBM

FreddieVanHalen said:

Thanks @ICBM - Lean Business seem to do them for about £120 delivered. Time to give this a go, the neighbours will love it!

Even better, before you do! I was a bit surprised by that price so I checked mine again and it's actually the standard Delta 12A, not the Pro - only £67.

FreddieVanHalen

ICBM said:

FreddieVanHalen said:

Thanks @ICBM - Lean Business seem to do them for about £120 delivered. Time to give this a go, the neighbours will love it!

Even better, before you do! I was a bit surprised by that price so I checked mine again and it's actually the standard Delta 12A, not the Pro - only £67.

This is indeed good news - the Pro would be nearly double what I paid for the amp :-)