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Helix - ok, I get it now

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TimmyOTimmyO Frets: 7350
I confess rather than a quick look-see when there first all the hubbub about them, I hadn't taken a huge amount of interest.

I've just watched a couple of the Line6 videos and I have to say that my tiny mind is somewhat blown.

Then options of routing, for incorporating external stuff, and the brilliance of the UI is bloody great. 

I can't afford one, but blimey I'd like one 
Red ones are better. 
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Comments

  • TimmyO said:
    I confess rather than a quick look-see when there first all the hubbub about them, I hadn't taken a huge amount of interest.

    I've just watched a couple of the Line6 videos and I have to say that my tiny mind is somewhat blown.

    Then options of routing, for incorporating external stuff, and the brilliance of the UI is bloody great. 

    I can't afford one, but blimey I'd like one 
    I'm becoming a broken record, but it's revolutionised my world. Best purchase ever. Wish they'd been around in the 90's!
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  • guitarfishbayguitarfishbay Frets: 7953
    edited February 2017
    Honestly unless you're in the kind of band where you get to turn up a valve amp often I think the digital modelling solutions available today make a ton of sense.  Given many posters here have FX boards that are close to the value of a Helix as it is (that's before including amp(s), power supplies, pedalboards, cabling, mics, interface etc)...
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  • You're not wrong. But there are a few barriers to going digital for me (and probably others) - changing to a direct to PA approach is a big change to how I do things and not always practical...we don't always have a predictable PA setup and the stress of not knowing exactly what I'm going to get is one thing I'd rather avoid.

    Which means I still need to shift a guitar cab everywhere...and tbh having an amp as well, doesn't make all that much difference. Especially since to sound decent I'd probably need some valve-based power amp anyway. That's not so much a barrier as a lack of benefit to going with a modeller if you see what I mean.

    But probably the main thing for me is having to have so much of your sound 'set in stone'. With amps and pedals, if things aren't sounding great I can fiddle and tweak between (or even during!) songs and hopefully sort things out. With a modelling unit, I'd just be worried I'd do something silly that would completely bork my tone...or that it would just take ages. Plus if you have several patches using the same amp tone, and you want to add more treble or something, you have to edit the amp sim in each patch, re-save it, and try again...and if it's not right then you have to do it again. Plus, I don't have a lot of time at home for tweaking...so can't be spending hours fiddling around, or spending sessions at the rehearsal space just trying out sounds at volume. It is, or at least feels like, a big investment of time.

    That's probably more of an issue for me than the actual tones...even with the Pod HD I can live with most of the tones. Oddly, contrary to what people say about the Pod I found the clean and crunch tones pretty convincing but I just couldn't get the high gain sounding right. Anyway, I'm assuming that's not an issue with the next gen stuff.
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 27587
    to sound decent I'd probably need some valve-based power amp anyway.
    I don't think that's true.

    the main thing for me is having to have so much of your sound 'set in stone'. With amps and pedals, if things aren't sounding great I can fiddle and tweak between (or even during!) songs and hopefully sort things out
    That's dead easy with the Helix - have a look at some of the foot-editing videos fer instance. And between songs it'd take only moments longer than with pedals - the interface is very flat, so you just select the block you want and use the eight parameter knobs to change whatever you need to change. There's even a dedicated amp button to get you straight to editing amp settings.
    "[Sporky] brings a certain vibe and dignity to the forum."
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  • John_AJohn_A Frets: 3775
    edited February 2017
    ^ yes the comments above are totally wrong, the kind of assumptions you might make if you haven't tried one.  The Helix does sound great in to a valve amp, but also sounds just as good FRFR, or both at the same time.  It's a piece of cake to edit on the fly too

    heres a good demo showing the Helix through a range of amps and speakers


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  • DominicDominic Frets: 16013
    Aside from the obvious lack of facilities and reportoire how do the sounds,tone and effects differ from the Firehawk?
     Am I right assuming that the Firehawk modelling must be the same technology but simply a unit with less options and refinement possibilty (aside from the editing process )
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 27587
    Firehawk is HD modelling, not Helix modelling. Plus some POD Farm stuff. It's not the same as the Helix modelling.
    "[Sporky] brings a certain vibe and dignity to the forum."
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  • Sporky said:
    to sound decent I'd probably need some valve-based power amp anyway.
    I don't think that's true.

    the main thing for me is having to have so much of your sound 'set in stone'. With amps and pedals, if things aren't sounding great I can fiddle and tweak between (or even during!) songs and hopefully sort things out
    That's dead easy with the Helix - have a look at some of the foot-editing videos fer instance. And between songs it'd take only moments longer than with pedals - the interface is very flat, so you just select the block you want and use the eight parameter knobs to change whatever you need to change. There's even a dedicated amp button to get you straight to editing amp settings.
    Sure - I appreciate the Helix is much better than the other modellers out there, in terms of usability. I was thinking more of modelling technology in general and the way I tend to use my gear.
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  • thomasw88thomasw88 Frets: 2316
    Sporky said:
    to sound decent I'd probably need some valve-based power amp anyway.
    I don't think that's true.

    the main thing for me is having to have so much of your sound 'set in stone'. With amps and pedals, if things aren't sounding great I can fiddle and tweak between (or even during!) songs and hopefully sort things out
    That's dead easy with the Helix - have a look at some of the foot-editing videos fer instance. And between songs it'd take only moments longer than with pedals - the interface is very flat, so you just select the block you want and use the eight parameter knobs to change whatever you need to change. There's even a dedicated amp button to get you straight to editing amp settings.
    Sure - I appreciate the Helix is much better than the other modellers out there, in terms of usability. I was thinking more of modelling technology in general and the way I tend to use my gear.
    Get a Fractal FX8 then.

    I like the fact that with the FX8, I am using a fecking awesome pedalboard. But I like to use a proper amp as well which is why I went for the FX8.
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 27587
    The Helix works beautifully with a conventional amplimafier too... ;)
    "[Sporky] brings a certain vibe and dignity to the forum."
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  • Sporky said:
    The Helix works beautifully with a conventional amplimafier too... ;)
    You guys are evil  =)

    Can't you see I'm trying to talk myself out of this! 

    On that video above...shame he didn't try the helix into the FX return of the Engl. I thought the amp alone was clearly the best tone but it would have been good to hear the Helix being used as a pre-amp to see if that was down to the power amp.
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  • But that said, you can drive yourself mad A/B-ing stuff and focusing on differences...they were all usable tones. I definitely preferred the 2 guitar cab ones (Helix / Matrix and Engl alone) with a preference for the Engl. But if I'd heard the Helix / Matrix in isolation I would have been quite happy with it.

    Thing is, the Matrix isn't all that cheap either, is it? Can you even get them still? I'm not sure if the cheaper amps (Behringer, Rocktron) would hold up as well.
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  • Sporky said:
    The Helix works beautifully with a conventional amplimafier too... ;)
    You guys are evil  =)

    Can't you see I'm trying to talk myself out of this! 

    On that video above...shame he didn't try the helix into the FX return of the Engl. I thought the amp alone was clearly the best tone but it would have been good to hear the Helix being used as a pre-amp to see if that was down to the power amp.
    Watch this. Preferably with headphones so you can hear it in stereo. 



    The Assumptions - UAE party band for all your rock & soul desires
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  • VaiaiVaiai Frets: 530
    thomasw88 said:
    Get a Fractal FX8 then.

    I like the fact that with the FX8, I am using a fecking awesome pedalboard. But I like to use a proper amp as well which is why I went for the FX8.
    Same reason I got the FX8 and use it with my amp - best of both worlds.
    I need to go modelling now for the band though so selling mine and going Helix. If I could I'd keep both for different reasons.

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  • guitarfishbayguitarfishbay Frets: 7953
    edited February 2017
    The differences don't really matter in a 'what is the best' kind of way.

    What matters is if you like the sound or not, and can you use the gear in a way that suits you or not.  At some point there's probably a compromise to be made, so I guess experience comes with knowing how to get 95% happy in the quickest amount of time, vs losing your entire life for the last few %.

    Think about it... you're playing a gig, or you're recording a song.  The end result is the tone used is final - there's no alternate version of that particular performance that you ask the listener to compare and make notes on.

    I'm well familiar with A/Bitis and testing things and compare/contrast etc... but it's mostly for my own knowledge/enjoyment (apart from when it drives me mad).  Ultimately you have to make a decision at some point and go with it.
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  • So, regarding power amps, this is interesting:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5XiMGYcVcQ

    Which do you think is best?
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  • TTBZTTBZ Frets: 2873
    edited February 2017
    TimmyO said:
    I can't afford one, but blimey I'd like one 
    This sums up my thoughts too! If it wasn't for my band I'd never get to play through my real amp so something like this makes a lot of sense.

    Although I'd probably only use 1 or 2 sounds so maybe that new Amplifirebox would be better for me.
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  • John_AJohn_A Frets: 3775
    The differences don't really matter in a 'what is the best' kind of way.

    What matters is if you like the sound or not, and can you use the gear in a way that suits you or not.  At some point there's probably a compromise to be made, so I guess experience comes with knowing how to get 95% happy in the quickest amount of time, vs losing your entire life for the last few %.

    Think about it... you're playing a gig, or you're recording a song.  The end result is the tone used is final - there's no alternate version of that particular performance that you ask the listener to compare and make notes on.

    I'm well familiar with A/Bitis and testing things and compare/contrast etc... but it's mostly for my own knowledge/enjoyment (apart from when it drives me mad).  Ultimately you have to make a decision at some point and go with it.


    Wisdom awarded!

    The Richie Castellano video wasn't meant to listen to to decide which 'is best' there are too many variables, i.e. that all can't be the same distance from the mics.  It was designed to show it can be used in many ways and they all sound great.

    From personal experience I can say the Helix is the best thing I've ever bought, sounds better than any set-up I've used previously, is a doddle to use etc etc  I only use a handful of sounds too, but IMO it's still the best solution for me.  Listened too in isolation with a very critical ear there may be something out there that sounds 'better' but I don't really care :)

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  • fretmeisterfretmeister Frets: 23964
    And in the next few weeks it gets even better...

    massive bass related firmware update is due any day. More bass amps, Darkglass and Pearce preamps etc.
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  • John_AJohn_A Frets: 3775
    And in the next few weeks it gets even better...

    massive bass related firmware update is due any day. More bass amps, Darkglass and Pearce preamps etc.

    Yes, will be digging out the Musicman and trying them out.  Cant wait :)
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