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Helix - ok, I get it now

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  • siraxemansiraxeman Frets: 1935
    John_A said:


    Well...all sounded good but the clear winner for me was the Engl amp....just sounded better, real and thicker with more presence to it. Thought it odd he select a 4x12 mesa cab in the helix/ownhammer IE....when comparing to the amp and 1 speaker. But still the amp won easily and that amp would probably sound much better if it got wound up to gig levels.
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  • VaiaiVaiai Frets: 530
    Pretty much everyone will agree the amp sounds better but it's the extra 5% you need to get to that which is the compromise - if the Helix or any other modeller can get to 95% but be easier to set up, carry, configure and use in various circumstances then it's a trade off most can live with except extreme tone junkies.
    If you do gig, you'll find the sound in every venue is different but going direct to PA simplifies all of that for you (and the sound guy will love you!)
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  • siraxemansiraxeman Frets: 1935
    a lot of pub bands don't go direct, and a lot of bands have a crappy PA....I agree with you in principle, but what we all know and love with a real amp and pedals is that feel factor - that thing that we like and you can't hear on any demo...even if you was in the same room as the guy playing it. You have to be playing it yourself. That all said though - don't get me wrong - I think the Helix is great....just think if I get one it will more likely be used at home. Home studios or any studio where volume is an issue - these become really good boxes of magic. I've heard great sounding demos of a lot of modellers in a mix and you'd not really be able to tell it apart from the real thing.
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 27580
    siraxeman said:
     what we all know and love with a real amp and pedals is that feel factor
    You do that a lot.

    You like a thing, so you say "we all like this".

    It's not true.
    "[Sporky] brings a certain vibe and dignity to the forum."
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  • gearaddictgearaddict Frets: 894
    edited February 2017
    So, regarding power amps, this is interesting:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5XiMGYcVcQ

    Which do you think is best?
    Not sure what others thought but I had a definite favourite which I thought sounded fuller and warmer...I assumed it would be valve. It wasn't, it was the Rocktron. Hmmm...
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  • John_AJohn_A Frets: 3775
    siraxeman said:
    a lot of pub bands don't go direct, and a lot of bands have a crappy PA....I agree with you in principle, but what we all know and love with a real amp and pedals is that feel factor - that thing that we like and you can't hear on any demo...even if you was in the same room as the guy playing it. You have to be playing it yourself. That all said though - don't get me wrong - I think the Helix is great....just think if I get one it will more likely be used at home. Home studios or any studio where volume is an issue - these become really good boxes of magic. I've heard great sounding demos of a lot of modellers in a mix and you'd not really be able to tell it apart from the real thing.


    "I" play in a pub band with a pretty average PA and go direct with a Helix and the 'feel factor' is there as a player who's used valve amps for years there's nothing at all "I" miss using a Helix and going direct.  Don't know who this 'we' is but it doesn't include me

    Anyone that uses a top quality amp in a band with a crappy PA is wasting their time unless the audience is full of guitarists who are only listening to the guitar

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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24578
    John_A said:

    Anyone that uses a top quality amp in a band with a crappy PA is wasting their time unless the audience is full of guitarists who are only listening to the guitar

    With a tip of the hat to cork sniffing as a great term to use, I'd be tempted to coin the phrase 'valverbators' but I fear my popularity may shrink even more ;)
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  • GassageGassage Frets: 30826
    I'm very tempted to buy the Helix in the amp forum.

    But it may be a downward spiral....

    *An Official Foo-Approved guitarist since Sept 2023.

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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24578
    Gassage said:
    I'm very tempted to buy the Helix in the amp forum.

    But it may be a downward spiral....
    With puns like that you need to stick to playing with your bush...
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  • RolandRoland Frets: 8590
    Gassage said:
    I'm very tempted to buy the Helix in the amp forum.

    But it may be a downward spiral....
    Only this morning you said that you can't afford the rack which you've just bought, or does this count as small change compared with a Bradshaw rack?
    Tree recycler, and guitarist with  https://www.undercoversband.com/.
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  • siraxemansiraxeman Frets: 1935
    edited February 2017
    Sporky said:
    siraxeman said:
     what we all know and love with a real amp and pedals is that feel factor
    You do that a lot.

    You like a thing, so you say "we all like this".

    It's not true.

    I speak as "guitarists in general" which is true. IMO. Gigging guitarists mostly play with real valve amps + pedals. Feel free to disagree though if you will feel bettererer. Digital modelling is more or less the bedroom rockers domain. ;-)
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  • siraxeman said:
    Sporky said:
    siraxeman said:
     what we all know and love with a real amp and pedals is that feel factor
    You do that a lot.

    You like a thing, so you say "we all like this".

    It's not true.

    I speak as "guitarists in general" which is true. IMO. Gigging guitarists mostly play with real valve amps + pedals. Feel free to disagree though if you will feel bettererer. Digital modelling is more or less the bedroom rockers domain. ;-)
    Except for all the thousands of professional musicians making their living using Kemper, Axe-FX and Helix over the last few years, presumably. 

    There are still pub rockers turning up with marshall stacks to play for 40 people, that doesn't mean everything invented since is bunk...
    The Assumptions - UAE party band for all your rock & soul desires
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  • siraxemansiraxeman Frets: 1935
    edited February 2017

    You seem to get the impression I'm against modelling or don't like the helix - both for the record are false. At home I use modelling a lot. Find it way easier to deal with for low volume stuff, plus you can change a sound drastically with a patch based processor. That is is good for live use to of course but, most of the bands I've seen/heard over the years and most 'famous' guitarists use real amps and pedals live. I think the guitar world is slowly changing of course in that regard as modelling gets better..but its not there yet. Its still on its journey. Maybe if valves do get banned eventually then there will be a wholesale jump over to the dark side. Till then long live the valve!! Modelling for me is still like diet coke (rola cola's version) compared to full fat Coka Cola.

    http://www.coca-colacompany.com/content/dam/journey/us/en/private/2016/01/1990 Can't Beat the Real Thing.jpg

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  • FiftyshadesofjayFiftyshadesofjay Frets: 1427
    edited February 2017
    siraxeman said:
    Sporky said:
    siraxeman said:
     what we all know and love with a real amp and pedals is that feel factor
    You do that a lot.

    You like a thing, so you say "we all like this".

    It's not true.

    I speak as "guitarists in general" which is true. IMO. Gigging guitarists mostly play with real valve amps + pedals. Feel free to disagree though if you will feel bettererer. Digital modelling is more or less the bedroom rockers domain. ;-)
    Utter nonsense. I make my living mostly using a Kemper and I'm definitely not the minority. 

    You'd be amazed at the the amount of acts using Kemper direct at the festival I played at recently. 

    There was a fair smattering of Axe Fx and Helix too.
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  • John_AJohn_A Frets: 3775
    edited February 2017
    Yes, I'm a gigging guitarist that used a Helix too, out of choice, because it's a better tool for me, and sounds 'better' than my old valve amps

    I do do still use real amps at home though sometimes 
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  • John_AJohn_A Frets: 3775
    Gassage said:
    I'm very tempted to buy the Helix in the amp forum.

    But it may be a downward spiral....
    With puns like that you need to stick to playing with your bush...
    lOL awarded :). But seriously, it would be interesting to see just how much tech has come on and see what a full rack and switching system could do better than a Helix ..or vice versa
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  • RolandRoland Frets: 8590
    siraxeman said:

    ... Digital modelling is more or less the bedroom rockers domain. ;-)
    Tell that to Metallica
    Tree recycler, and guitarist with  https://www.undercoversband.com/.
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  • dindudedindude Frets: 8534
    Roland said:
    siraxeman said:

    ... Digital modelling is more or less the bedroom rockers domain. ;-)
    Tell that to Metallica
    Indeed, there's also a theme running through the Helix threads on here at the moment, where the valve amp and pedals are the home play things and the digital modelling is the practical gigging choice.
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  • RolandRoland Frets: 8590
    Has been for me for years. No way I'd lug a 2x12 to a gig, and have the tone and responsiveness change whenever I have to turn it up or down to suit a venue.
    Tree recycler, and guitarist with  https://www.undercoversband.com/.
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  • CabicularCabicular Frets: 2214
    dindude said:
    Roland said:
    siraxeman said:

    ... Digital modelling is more or less the bedroom rockers domain. ;-)
    Tell that to Metallica
    Indeed, there's also a theme running through the Helix threads on here at the moment, where the valve amp and pedals are the home play things and the digital modelling is the practical gigging choice.
    Absolutely the case with me
    all the nice amps are too loud or too heavy for most venues I play 
    I record with them but Helix puts in 50 plus gigs per year

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