Di Boxes for acoustic guitar

Teetonetal

erm, help!

With an acoustic with a built in preamp, why would  you also need a DI box (say like the BSS AR-133)?

mgaw

didnt think you did

mellowsun

Eq, notch filter, balanced xlr out?

Teetonetal

mgaw said:

didnt think you did

Well - me too, but I saw a few acoustic acts (like Andy Mckee) last year and they all used them.

mellowsun said:

Eq, notch filter, balanced xlr out?

Wouldn't your average desk have most of those things, except the balanced XLR out?

mgaw

Teetonetal said:

mgaw said:

didnt think you did

Well - me too, but I saw a few acoustic acts (like Andy Mckee) last year and they all used them.

mellowsun said:

Eq, notch filter, balanced xlr out?

Wouldn't your average desk have most of those things, except the balanced XLR out?

does Andy Mckee have an onboard pre amp?a;so i think they have a couple or even three pickups in the guitar so maybe need to run some or one through a DI box...think most would agree that on board arent as good as external though

Teetonetal

@mgaw ah, I think he perhaps has a under saddle pick up and a transducer / mic in the sound hole...

ICBM

Not that many onboard preamps have balanced outputs, and even with those that do, the soundman will usually prefer you to use one of their own DI boxes - it's what they're used to working with and keeps things consistent.

John_P

As icbm say the stage box/ multicore for the pa will have xlr balanced inputs so a Di box is the simple way to connnect the guitar they will usually have a jack output. 

Teetonetal

Ah obvious really. Thanks!

bluechargeboy

I have a Radial passive DI on my pedalboard and usually end up using that, but happy to use the house DI or guitar lead straight to desk if the sound engineer prefers; it all works. For many small stages I have plugged straight into the desk.

If I use a passive pickup with the passive DI it seems to be a very quiet signal and they have to whack the gain up on the desk.

ICBM

bluechargeboy said:

I have a Radial passive DI on my pedalboard and usually end up using that

Passive (transformer) DIs sound better for electric guitar and bass, to me - even without any speaker emulation, they just sound more natural somehow. I have a couple of old DOD ones for exactly that reason.

bluechargeboy said:

If I use a passive pickup with the passive DI it seems to be a very quiet signal and they have to whack the gain up on the desk.

You do need some sort of power at some point, so if you're not using a pedal or an onboard preamp then you need an active DI box, or the pickup itself is having to drive the whole length of cable to the desk.

bluechargeboy

ICBM said:

bluechargeboy said:

I have a Radial passive DI on my pedalboard and usually end up using that

Passive (transformer) DIs sound better for electric guitar and bass, to me - even without any speaker emulation, they just sound more natural somehow. I have a couple of old DOD ones for exactly that reason.

bluechargeboy said:

If I use a passive pickup with the passive DI it seems to be a very quiet signal and they have to whack the gain up on the desk.

You do need some sort of power at some point, so if you're not using a pedal or an onboard preamp then you need an active DI box, or the pickup itself is having to drive the whole length of cable to the desk.

Aye, that's the reason I went passive (with electro-acoustic); I wanted the transformer tonez! I have a soundhole pickup for emergencies, and I suspected I need active DI for passive pickup. Good to have it confirmed by someone who knows about electrickery.

Seriously, if my Takamine preamp ever fails again I will be getting a decent soundhole pickup and an external preamp!! But then I'm preaching to the choir here.

crunchman

I must say I prefer an active DI box to passive.  Orchid Electronics are good for very little money.

bluechargeboy

crunchman said:

I must say I prefer an active DI box to passive.  Orchid Electronics are good for very little money.

Nice one @crunchman, I hadn't heard of them. The Micro DI looks like a nice backup to go with my passive pickup, and a lot cheaper than a Radial JDI!

Norwegian_Blue

@bluechargeboy  Another +1 for Orchid...he's down the road from me and I have a collection of Micro DIs both for myself and fitted in a venue I work in. Top notch service, and good price! I've had a few of mine modified to run from 9v pedal power too, just in case Phantom Power is not available or irregular! My oldest I've had for at least 6 years, no issues whatsoever.

bluechargeboy

@Norwegian_Blue I have played one or two gigs where phantom power is not working, yes!

I was just bemoaning before about the lack of 9v adaptor-compatible DIs.  

ESBlonde

If phantom isn't working it's sometimes because someone lifted the screen on the multicore or in the doghouse.
Another +1 for Orchid
At a push the Behringer active DIs (Ultra DI & DI20) work for this but the ultra can be susceptable to noise (the unit they copied had a mumetal can for screening the transformer which for cost sake Behringer ignored) if stood atop an amp with a big mains transformer. They are readilly available and reasonable performance, but Orchid would get my money again if I needed more DIs and are similarly priced for UK made product with excellent reputation.

ecc83

The guitar in question seems to have a built in pre amp? If so then yes, that can drive a line input of the usual 10k load impedance but as ICBM said, the guy on the desk will likely want a mic level feed on XLR and so a standard DI box, active or passive (the Orchids handily run from phantom power).

If however you have a passive, peizo pickup that needs a pre amp and said pre amp needs a much higher input impedance than the standard active DI box or indeed guitar amplifier. In the order of 5 to 10 meg Ohms. A one meg load will make the guitar sound very bass light. (one dodge you can try at home is to feed one into the RIAA corrected phono input of a hi fi amp)

I also doubt a guitar would drive a transformer nearly hard enough to elicit any "transformer tone"? Traffs DO distort but not much until you hit a volt or so and even then only at low frequencies, mostly those below the E string!

Seems above is right. A Radial passive quotes 0.05% THD at -10dBV (abt 300mV) and another make, 0.01% at +4dBu. Sowter make a 10:1 traff specifically for DI boxes* and that does not hit 0.5% THD (still undetectable) until the input level is 40 volts!

*Will be expensive!

Dave.