Getting gigs as an originals band (also equipment)

rico

Hi FB,

I have been playing with a new originals band for about four months now and we have around 10 songs with a good idea about which five will be recorded as an EP.

We are a foursome that are inspired by Sabbath/Motorhead/Orange Goblin/Deep Purple type heavy riff-driven songs. 

Our loose 'plan' is to record an EP in the coming months in order to use that as a promo to send to venues etc - is this a good way of doing it or should we be contacting venues first? 

Also how easy is it to just 'get' gigs? I used to play in a less heavy originals band when I was younger and myspace (yes it was that long ago!) was the ticket to getting gigs - we even played at the Hammersmith Palais!

We are based in Surrey/SW London.

On a somewhat related note, what is the general score regarding PA/backline etc? Is it expected that bands bring absolutely everything to gigs or can you be expected to share other bands' kit?

Sorry for the seemingly newbie questions!

digitalscream

rico said:

On a somewhat related note, what is the general score regarding PA/backline etc? Is it expected that bands bring absolutely everything to gigs or can you be expected to share other bands' kit?

As a general rule, most (almost all) venues that host multi-band venues will have a house PA. In the rare instance that it doesn't, whoever organised the gig (whether it's a local promoter or even a band) will provide it.

Gear sharing is generally done on a gig-by-gig basis. Occasionally you might find that the venue or organiser insists on all the bands at least using the same cabs for the sake of speeding up changeovers...most of the time, though, they'll leave that to the bands to sort it out between them.

I always take my cab along, though, even when I'm supposed to be using somebody else's. Why? Because 50% of the time you'll find that the "shared cab" is either bloody awful, or is actually a combo which is no use to anyone. If either of those things happens, I'll offer to let everyone use mine on the night instead (still speeds up changeovers, but everyone will sound better).

professorben

First thing I'd do is take a look in a local paper for venues that actually have original music, or online, then look for bands that are 'somewhat' similar to your band, then contract them to see if they would do a doubleheader or if they want a support act, this has many advantages:

1)You get exposure to the other bands fan base.
2)They get exposure to your fan base ( which as a new band will prob be just wags,dads and mate but who cares?).
3)less pressure on individual bands to fill a venue, after all it's beer and tickets that pay the bills.
4) with a bit of luck you can arrange your own touring circuit in your town and use it to invite bands from further afield to play, and reciprocate the favour.

ive found over the years that approaching venues with a cd or recording is sn expensive and haphazard way to get gigs, either your EP will sit on a desk for months unlistened or it may never get listened to, venues have bills to pay, they don't really care if you have awesome songs, great tone or a hot singer ( well maybe the singer bit) what they care about is door money and wet sales, which means people, if you can offer the venue a show with a new band and a popular local band, it'll just be a case of hammering out dates.

3 songs is more than enough to get gigs with other bands, 5 song ep to sell at the gig.

however I'm aware that my approach may be outdated and something called Facebook is useful in this instance. 

ICBM

digitalscream said:

I always take my cab along, though, even when I'm supposed to be using somebody else's. Why? Because 50% of the time you'll find that the "shared cab" is either bloody awful, or is actually a combo which is no use to anyone. If either of those things happens, I'll offer to let everyone use mine on the night instead (still speeds up changeovers, but everyone will sound better).

I always used to take this approach for gigs like this too - although with a combo. The golden rule is very simple - make sure your amp is absolutely bombproof and that you therefore don't mind other people using it… because sooner or later (ie sooner) you'll find the other bands have such crap amps that you won't want to use any of them anyway, or one of theirs will break and you'll look like a dick if you don't let them use yours. And a spare is always useful no matter what.

In general the headline band will bring the drum kit because they have to se up first, they or one of the other later bands should bring the bass amp or at least a cab, and the guitar amps get shared out. If you're a young band first on a bill of more than three bands you *can* probably get away without bringing any of your own gear, but make certain you've checked this is OK with the other bands *before the gig* or you'll seem like freeloaders. Buying them drinks and helping carry anything heavy usually helps.

And there's still usually someone that's precious about something that it would make life much easier if everyone could use. Basically if you've got an amp or a cabinet that you're worried about someone else using in case they break it, it isn't good enough to gig anyway...

digitalscream

ICBM said:

digitalscream said:

I always take my cab along, though, even when I'm supposed to be using somebody else's. Why? Because 50% of the time you'll find that the "shared cab" is either bloody awful, or is actually a combo which is no use to anyone. If either of those things happens, I'll offer to let everyone use mine on the night instead (still speeds up changeovers, but everyone will sound better).

I always used to take this approach for gigs like this too - although with a combo. The golden rule is very simple - make sure your amp is absolutely bombproof and that you therefore don't mind other people using it… because sooner or later (ie sooner) you'll find the other bands have such crap amps that you won't want to use any of them anyway, or one of theirs will break and you'll look like a dick if you don't let them use yours. And a spare is always useful no matter what.

In general the headline band will bring the drum kit because they have to se up first, they or one of the other later bands should bring the bass amp or at least a cab, and the guitar amps get shared out. If you're a young band first on a bill of more than three bands you *can* probably get away without bringing any of your own gear, but make certain you've checked this is OK with the other bands *before the gig* or you'll seem like freeloaders. Buying them drinks and helping carry anything heavy usually helps.

And there's still usually someone that's precious about something that it would make life much easier if everyone could use. Basically if you've got an amp or a cabinet that you're worried about someone else using in case they break it, it isn't good enough to gig anyway...

Actually, another good point that I always made sure to do - when the promoter says "Gear sharing is up to the bands", make sure that you are the one who organises it, and copy the promoter in. As long as it goes smoothly, it's almost guaranteed to get you more gigs because it's one less thing that the promoter has to deal with, and "not doing much" is a promoter's ideal resting state.

Strangefan

Most promotion companies are utterly useless they expect you to sell tickets, and hardly do any of the promotion themselves,  if you can,  do the hard work yourself,  but the best from what I have found is be a support band. 
Being a "headliner"  at a non signed Nm band gig, fromexperience means a lot of the crowd dissappear s when their mates band has played and a lot of the time the headliners are playing to an empty room. 

Gigging these days is not what it was like before 2008, people don't go out as much as they used to, getting a crowd is really bloody hard unless you're a covers band

The music scene is dying it really needs a huge boosts... Just not sure how. 

digitalscream

Strangefan said:

The music scene is dying it really needs a huge boosts... Just not sure how. 

The solution is simple - venues, promoters and musicians need to stop treating each other like the enemy and treating fans like currency.

Moe_Zambeek

Strangefan said:

The music scene is dying it really needs a huge boosts... Just not sure how. 

The problem is that most bands aren't good enough to attract a following, and once you get past the age of 23ish you can't rely on your mates to come along even though you're not a very good band. 

I still believe really good bands with really good songs get gigs and generate followers. 

gusman2x

Normally you should provide your own breakables. Basically everything other than your drum shells, bass amp (normally), mics, and PA. Why should someone else drag their stuff to a gig for someone else to play through? Eventually no-one will want to bring anything.

Agree with @strangefan about the difficulty in getting people down to unsigned nights. Also agree that *most promoters do very little promoting, and expect you to sell 25-50 tickets per gig. My advice would be to find a venue to rent. It's surprisingly cheap, and you can curate the bands you want, do all your own artwork/promo etc yourselves. Much bigger buzz.

digitalscream

gusman2x said:

My advice would be to find a venue to rent. It's surprisingly cheap, and you can curate the bands you want, do all your own artwork/promo etc yourselves. Much bigger buzz.

Or even approach venues who normally put on cover bands, and say that you'll put on a two- or three-band show for the same price as a normal cover band would charge.

Then you can hire a PA and have at least £150 left over to pay all the bands way more than they'd normally get as original bands. That also ingratiates you with the local bands, so...more gigs there, too.

Strangefan

@digitalscream you're not in a band at the mo are you? 

digitalscream

Strangefan said:

@digitalscream you're not in a band at the mo are you? 

Nope. Jus' chillin, enjoying life without herding cats musicians

EricTheWeary

professorben said:

First thing I'd do is take a look in a local paper for venues that actually have original music, or online, then look for bands that are 'somewhat' similar to your band, then contract them to see if they would do a doubleheader or if they want a support act, this has many advantages:

1)You get exposure to the other bands fan base.
2)They get exposure to your fan base ( which as a new band will prob be just wags,dads and mate but who cares?).
3)less pressure on individual bands to fill a venue, after all it's beer and tickets that pay the bills.
4) with a bit of luck you can arrange your own touring circuit in your town and use it to invite bands from further afield to play, and reciprocate the favour.

ive found over the years that approaching venues with a cd or recording is sn expensive and haphazard way to get gigs, either your EP will sit on a desk for months unlistened or it may never get listened to, venues have bills to pay, they don't really care if you have awesome songs, great tone or a hot singer ( well maybe the singer bit) what they care about is door money and wet sales, which means people, if you can offer the venue a show with a new band and a popular local band, it'll just be a case of hammering out dates.

3 songs is more than enough to get gigs with other bands, 5 song ep to sell at the gig.

however I'm aware that my approach may be outdated and something called Facebook is useful in this instance. 

If you can find the right Facebook groups you will find venues happy to accommodate unpaid bands, just treat it all with caution. 
My friend's originals band have an album on iTunes, spend huge chunks of their time on band stuff and still play gigs for nothing to drunk students. I know it has it's own rewards but it doesn't seem to be the route for the half hearted. 

ICBM

gusman2x said:

Normally you should provide your own breakables. Basically everything other than your drum shells, bass amp (normally), mics, and PA. Why should someone else drag their stuff to a gig for someone else to play through? Eventually no-one will want to bring anything.

Because it works much better and more smoothly if everyone is sensible about sharing gear, so no one band has to bring *everything*.

The drummer is going to have to share his kit anyway, and you're suggesting the bass player should share his amp too, so why do guitarists get a pass? Guitarists with their precious amps (or vice versa ) are a real pain at this sort of thing. Guitar amps are no more breakable than drums - less so, actually - and if yours is, then you'll probably end up having to borrow someone elses when yours dies anyway…

In fact, in the most successful band I was in when we were usually playing last, it was normal for us to bring the drums, bass amp and one guitar amp - which all went in my car - simply because I preferred to use known decent-sounding, reliable gear. Other guitarists were welcome to use my amp if they wanted - some did, some didn't. No-one ever broke it.

DesVegas

I much prefer being a support act. Shorter sets and get to have a proper drink sooner : )

ICBM

DesVegas said:

I much prefer being a support act. Shorter sets and get to have a proper drink sooner : )

I have to admit it got a bit tedious generally playing last - the drummer in particular got a bit hacked off with always having to be there first and out last. Half the audience disappearing after the last set before yours was always annoying too, although the better-known you get the less that happens. It was one of the contributing factors behind eventually giving up on the originals scene and going back to being in a covers band, though.

gusman2x

ICBM said:

gusman2x said:

Normally you should provide your own breakables. Basically everything other than your drum shells, bass amp (normally), mics, and PA. Why should someone else drag their stuff to a gig for someone else to play through? Eventually no-one will want to bring anything.

Because it works much better and more smoothly if everyone is sensible about sharing gear, so no one band has to bring *everything*.

The drummer is going to have to share his kit anyway, and you're suggesting the bass player should share his amp too, so why do guitarists get a pass? Guitarists with their precious amps (or vice versa ) are a real pain at this sort of thing. Guitar amps are no more breakable than drums - less so, actually - and if yours is, then you'll probably end up having to borrow someone elses when yours dies anyway…

In fact, in the most successful band I was in when we were usually playing last, it was normal for us to bring the drums, bass amp and one guitar amp - which all went in my car - simply because I preferred to use known decent-sounding, reliable gear. Other guitarists were welcome to use my amp if they wanted - some did, some didn't. No-one ever broke it.

Sorry I should maybe have been more clear, generally venues that have regular nights and supply a backline have drum shells as well as a bass amp, or they DI the bass.

WRT to not wanting others to use your equipment, it's less about being precious (although sometimes I am), but it's more about understanding who's bringing what. If it's not clear then there will be 3 bands playing, and no amps. On a number of occasions I have let people use my amp, and I've go no problem with that. Normally if they have an issue with theirs. I'm not overly impressed when someone turns up expecting to use it. They didn't have to carry it there, they don't have to carry it home, and they don't have to stay sober so they can drive their equipment home.

If there was a bullet-proof way to schedule who was bringing what to a gig, and a way to make sure over a period of time it was shared out fairly, then that would be fine. But that doesn't exist. It would only work if you were playing with friend's ban regularly.

I am however considering a cheaper/more robust gigging amp. But then it's a shame to not use what you have.

ICBM

Ah, I get you. That's true… although I always used amps that were both robust and my choice for sound anyway. A lot of the goodwill came from people asking in advance, too - I was always somewhat less forthcoming about helping them set up a good sound if they just turned up and presumed to use it. The really funny thing was when the freeloaders got sniffy about using an amp they didn't like . It would be even better if I was still doing gigs like this these days, because my current choice would be that old solid-state Peavey Special .

gusman2x

 I'm considering a SS of some kind. Something under £200 that I can throw about and not care about too much. Plus, when the c**t guitarist in another band puts his pint on it, I won't have to restrain myself from killing him

rico

Thanks for the replies so far guys. 

I guess we'll just have to start approaching local venues and bands through the various channels and start getting involved in the 'scene'.

Regarding sharing equipment I have done this before but mainly with bands we were friendly with. As I see it, most of the equipment we use isn't irreplaceable and I guess this is what insurance is for.

It reminds me of a gig we had where we were second on the bill and the guys after us were giving it all that about the gigs they have played etc etc. Real arseholes saying how our demos sounded shit and really amateur...They were a regular gigging band blah blah blah. When we started setting up they immediately changed their tune and asked us if they could borrow our amps and stuff like that. After our set we had to load up the van pretty sharpish and whipped the heads off stage so they had to rush and get their stuff set up. The looks on their faces!

As an aside, is it expected that most venues mic your set up these days? 

gusman2x

Most venues seem to mic up the amps. Ask some of the venues who the promoters are that run the nights. There's normally a few small time promoters that have multiple nights on per week.