Getting gigs as an originals band (also equipment)

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  • CirrusCirrus Frets: 8481
    Personally, my philosophy is that when I arrive at the gig I've got everything I need to do my job as a guitarist. I'll always bring my guitar amp because experience tells me I just don't know what I'm going to be dealt with - unless, of course, I've been expressly told not to bring an amp or have made advanced plans that I think I can rely on - ie I'm dealing with people I know. I've always told other bands who ask in advance they're welcome to use my amp if they ask, though hardly anyone takes me up on the offer. On the other hand, I get very annoyed when a band I don't know rocks up with fuck all on the assumption that I'll let them use my rig, and usually I say no unless it's going to derail the entire event  - in which case I'm doing it as a favor to the organiser.

    As to your own decision over what you play through, it very much comes down to what you feel comfortable with. Thing is, guitar amps are such a vital part of the sound of the instrument. If you go for the sound of an open back combo you'll be disappointed if you have to run through a 4x12. If you're playing originals, you're an artist. If you're an artist, anyone who thinks this is an unreasonably finickity position to take can fuck off - they're not the ones who have to stand in front of a room full of people and bare their souls!

    Drum kit logistical planning is a world I try to stay out of, mainly because it involves having to interact with drummers. But in general, the gig organiser will either expressly state that a kit will be provider, or he'll put bands in contact with each other to make arrangements amongst themselves. Typically one band provides shells and stands, all other bands bring their own sticks, cymbals, snare, kick pedal and stool.

    My experience is that bass rigs are a step down from that in terms of forward planning in that usually there will be an implicit understanding that there will be at least a bass cab on stage that everyone can use, but it's not definite. So most bassists will bring more than they end up needing and end up leaving their cab and sometimes their head backstage in order to just use what's already up there. Bass rigs are typically much more standardised than guitar rigs - it's pretty much always these days going to be a clean solid state head into a closed back cab with 10" speakers.

    PA systems - most bars and clubs will have them already, it's very unusual to play an originals gig where you have to concern yourself with any of that. Thought I would advise bringing your own vocal mic and stand, because there's nothing more annoying than having to use a stand that can't be adjusted because it's either siezed up or can't be tightened up, and there's nothing more disgusting than having to use a vocal mic that the punk band on before you have gobbed all over so that it's covered in yellow phlegm - plus, you'll get about 10 extra colds a year if you share mics on multi-band gigs. If you play a pub, it's safe to assume they won't have a PA system worth mentioning.
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  • ICBM said:

    The drummer is going to have to share his kit anyway, and you're suggesting the bass player should share his amp too, so why do guitarists get a pass? Guitarists with their precious amps (or vice versa ;) ) are a real pain at this sort of thing. Guitar amps are no more breakable than drums - less so, actually - and if yours is, then you'll probably end up having to borrow someone elses when yours dies anyway…
    Guitar amps are a different case, though. For a start, it's a lot easier to switch a guitar amp than it is a drum kit; secondly, a guitar amp is a lot more integral to the sound of the band than a bass amp (most of the time).

    As I discovered, guitar amps are also a lot more breakable than most gig-ready bass amps or drum kits. I used to let people use my amp (as long as they understood that they had a gnat's chance in hell of getting a clean sound out of it), until one guy wrecked one of mine by unplugging the speaker cab and plugging it into a new one while it was switched on and his mate was playing at gig volume. Cost me almost as much as I'd paid for the amp in repairs.

    Aside from that, the worst instance I came across was when a headline band at a gig showed up without any amps, the drummer brought only breakables (even though the pre-gig chat agreed that he'd bring the kit), and neither guitarist brought pedals or their guitars. They just assumed they could use everybody else's, because their previous gig was a festival and they trashed all their gear on stage. Needless to say, they got a sound "PISS OFF!" from the other bands, they got removed from the lineup. As I recall, they had to cancel the rest of their tour because they couldn't afford more instruments and the bands at every show they turned up to had the same reaction we did.
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  • Cirrus said:
    <snip>

    If you're playing originals, you're an artist. If you're an artist, anyone who thinks this is an unreasonably finickity position to take can fuck off - they're not the ones who have to stand in front of a room full of people and bare their souls!

    <snip>
    This. 
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  • Cirrus said:
    <snip>

    If you're playing originals, you're an artist. If you're an artist, anyone who thinks this is an unreasonably finickity position to take can fuck off - they're not the ones who have to stand in front of a room full of people and bare their souls!

    <snip>
    This. 
    That doesn't mean that there aren't better ways to deal with situations than having an hissy fit.

    Speaking as both an artist/musician and a sound engineer who ran many PAs, I can see both sides. The most important thing is to simply communicate and deal with issues quickly and professionally.

    R.
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  • slackerslacker Frets: 2216
    As many have stated the best way to deal with backline is to take your own stuff but be prepared to share. Also take spares. I'm precious about using valves so I always take a ZVex Nano head as a spare if there are no other bands. It's a foible. Sensible spares are strings, straps, valves and a tuner. Sensible equipment is a screwdriver, contact cleaner and maybe a soldering iron. 

    I've got some sharing stories, mostly when I played bass. These are the short versions because I think I've posted them before. 

    Guy wants to borrow a bass, I wont let him. My mate lets him have a Squier. Turns out the guy was a relative beginner and bought a fretless by mistake. If I had known he could have used mine and Id have a go on the fretless-communication.

    Guy wants to borrow a bass amp via my guitarist. No. Again. No. Guy approaches me looking embarrassed. He owned three amps and went to the gig from work. He'd arranged for his Dad to bring an amp to the gig. So Dad brought a 5w practice combo as it was easy to carry. When I stopped laughing I let him borrow my amp. 

    I did a little festival and was told that all backline was provided. So I packed my amp head and 8ohm cab. Got to the festival and the bass amp was a Peavey 50w combo. The dickhead guitarist who never bought or brought anything had a choice between two Plexi full stacks with chequer cabs. I wasnt happy. 






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  • CirrusCirrus Frets: 8481
    Cirrus said:
    <snip>

    If you're playing originals, you're an artist. If you're an artist, anyone who thinks this is an unreasonably finickity position to take can fuck off - they're not the ones who have to stand in front of a room full of people and bare their souls!

    <snip>
    This. 
    That doesn't mean that there aren't better ways to deal with situations than having an hissy fit.

    Speaking as both an artist/musician and a sound engineer who ran many PAs, I can see both sides. The most important thing is to simply communicate and deal with issues quickly and professionally.

    R.
    Was anyone advocating having a hissy fit? :s
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  • Cirrus said:
    Cirrus said:
    <snip>

    If you're playing originals, you're an artist. If you're an artist, anyone who thinks this is an unreasonably finickity position to take can fuck off - they're not the ones who have to stand in front of a room full of people and bare their souls!

    <snip>
    This. 
    That doesn't mean that there aren't better ways to deal with situations than having an hissy fit.

    Speaking as both an artist/musician and a sound engineer who ran many PAs, I can see both sides. The most important thing is to simply communicate and deal with issues quickly and professionally.

    R.
    Was anyone advocating having a hissy fit? :s
    Not me. I was agreeing with your idea that an artist can be as finicky as they like about the gear they want to use at a gig. If it's their sound and they believe they need their gear, then it's their decision and they shouldn't be rebuked for feeling the way they feel. But you knew that. I think Robin might have misunderstood.

    There's a big difference in my head between wanting to play your own work and find out if anyone else likes it (the artist) versus wanting to entertain people who are paying you and therefore playing what they would like to hear (the artisan). There are a million shades of grey in between, too. None of them are wrong.
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  • I think the colourful expression ("anyone who thinks this is an unreasonably finickity position to take can fuck off") triggered memories of my earlier days. 
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  • I think the colourful expression ("anyone who thinks this is an unreasonably finickity position to take can fuck off") triggered memories of my earlier days. 
    Ha ha! I have to confess I've been a genuine prima donna once or twice in my earlier years - in circumstances that truly didn't justify it. I do hope it wasn't me in your memories... I'm much better now. My doctor says... 
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  • CirrusCirrus Frets: 8481
    Yeah, I knew where you were coming from. I had that little burst of joy from someone agreeing with me!  =)

    I was questioning @robinbowes , who has possibly imagined I'm more militant about it than I actually am in person.

    I meant 100% what I said. I think any performer has a right to be a bit of a Diva if that's what they need to do to deliver the results that they're aiming for. Performance psychology can be a bitch, and you never know what could be someone's trigger that puts them into the wrong headspace. That's not so say that you can't call out someone for being a snarling bellend and treating people like shit, but if a performer wants to use their own instrument (I consider the amp an instrument) then that's hardly an unreasonable starting point.

    I guess I'd say... absolutely try to understand the issues the soundman/stage manager/ gig organiser are dealing with. If they don't want you to use your amp, I think it would be reasonable to ask why if it's not immediately obvious. You can do this politely! No hissy fit needed.

    - Space is a good reason. If there's no space on the stage, what can you do? Especially if the backline is all set up for a headline band - you can't move their stuff without unplugging things, moving mics etc. And in that situation, you are not the main event so you do whatever you can to make things quick and easy for all concerned. Possibly with some discussion, you can come to some compromise like using your amp offstage, on top of a cab etc if it's a real worry. On the other hand, if it's an event with no real hierarchy of acts, people usually respond well if you just say "do you mind if I move this cab when I set up? I'll put it back afterwards".

    - Set up time. This can go either way. Some bands move like sloths, or stare at their half set up rigs in abject confusion for 20 minutes. This might be the nightmare the organiser is trying to avoid by minimising gear changeovers. On the other hand, I know I can get my rig entirely set up in less than 5 minutes, including positioning the mic, because I want to get this stuff done efficiently. Honestly, it doesn't take me appreciably longer than getting my board set up and getting two guitars tuned

    - Sound. This is a tricky one. I've had sound men argue that we should use their cabs because they've positioned the mics and dialed in the guitar sound, so changing the guitar amp would mean needing to sort out the mix again. This is hard to argue with if soundman-ing is a dark art to you, but I think it's an argument that falls apart on closer inspection. Your band isn't the same as the band that was just on. You play different. You'll sound different even if you use the same backline. If the soundman is not adjusting the mix from band to band to present each one in their best light, using the same gear to make their job easier in their heads isn't going to make your mix any better.

    - They don't like you, and they want to make things harder for you. You are doomed. Go home.
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  • Cirrus said:

    - Space is a good reason. If there's no space on the stage, what can you do? Especially if the backline is all set up for a headline band - you can't move their stuff without unplugging things, moving mics etc. And in that situation, you are not the main event so you do whatever you can to make things quick and easy for all concerned. Possibly with some discussion, you can come to some compromise like using your amp offstage, on top of a cab etc if it's a real worry. On the other hand, if it's an event with no real hierarchy of acts, people usually respond well if you just say "do you mind if I move this cab when I set up? I'll put it back afterwards".
    I had this at the last dep gig - there was bags of space on stage, but the sound guy insisted I use the headline band's cab for his convenience. OK, fine...but it was a shitty Randall 4x12", and I had a 20W amp. The result was that I couldn't actually make my amp loud enough to be heard on stage, and the house monitors were so crap that I had absolutely no chance. In the end, spent 90% of the gig not being able to hear myself, and the other 10% was spent crouched down in front of the cab so I knew what was going on. Afterwards, the sound guy complained that I wasn't loud enough and it was a nightmare for him (despite me explaining at soundcheck that my cab would be louder and sound better if he'd just let me use it).
    Cirrus said:

    - Sound. This is a tricky one. I've had sound men argue that we should use their cabs because they've positioned the mics and dialed in the guitar sound, so changing the guitar amp would mean needing to sort out the mix again. This is hard to argue with if soundman-ing is a dark art to you, but I think it's an argument that falls apart on closer inspection. Your band isn't the same as the band that was just on. You play different. You'll sound different even if you use the same backline. If the soundman is not adjusting the mix from band to band to present each one in their best light, using the same gear to make their job easier in their heads isn't going to make your mix any better.
    At the dep gig prior to the one above...the headline band insisted that we use their crappy Palmer cab sims between our amps and cabs. The sound guy (who we knew) chimed in to agree with them over my protestations that it'd make our guitars sounds too similar, so we gave in. Everybody we knew in the audience said the guitars sounded like mush for the whole night, and afterwards the sound guy came to us and said "That was a nightmare, your guitars sounded almost identical and really fizzy. I've never known your amps to sound so crap. You should get them serviced."

    AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH

    These are exactly the reasons I usually insist on using all my own gear, even if it means having bugger-all space on stage.
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  • ReverendReverend Frets: 4974
    rico said:
    Hi FB,

    I have been playing with a new originals band for about four months now and we have around 10 songs with a good idea about which five will be recorded as an EP.

    We are a foursome that are inspired by Sabbath/Motorhead/Orange Goblin/Deep Purple type heavy riff-driven songs. 

    Our loose 'plan' is to record an EP in the coming months in order to use that as a promo to send to venues etc - is this a good way of doing it or should we be contacting venues first? 

    Also how easy is it to just 'get' gigs? I used to play in a less heavy originals band when I was younger and myspace (yes it was that long ago!) was the ticket to getting gigs - we even played at the Hammersmith Palais!

    We are based in Surrey/SW London.

    On a somewhat related note, what is the general score regarding PA/backline etc? Is it expected that bands bring absolutely everything to gigs or can you be expected to share other bands' kit?

    Sorry for the seemingly newbie questions!
    Definitely get a demo done and a bandcamp or similar is a great way to promote it. 
    Check out the unicorn in Camden as they put on a few stoner and doom bills.
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  • ReverendReverend Frets: 4974
    Gear share should be organised before the say of the gig. Sharing cabs and sometimes the basics of a kit is common but heads and breakables not so much. 
    I've lent heads to friends in bands but you have to know them. 
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71963
    edited February 2017
    Cirrus said:

    Thing is, guitar amps are such a vital part of the sound of the instrument. If you go for the sound of an open back combo you'll be disappointed if you have to run through a 4x12. If you're playing originals, you're an artist. If you're an artist, anyone who thinks this is an unreasonably finickity position to take can fuck off - they're not the ones who have to stand in front of a room full of people and bare their souls!
    Seriously? I'm a combo user and I never had a problem playing through any provided amp, combo or head/cabinet, which was loud enough and had at least a decent full tone, and I always sounded like me.

    Artist, baring your soul? D  You're playing at a local multi-band gig mostly for members of the other bands and your/their friends. Maybe slightly different if you're headlining, but then you're probably bringing your own gear…

    Still just my opinion obviously, but basically that sort of thing confirms what I think about guitarists being far too finicky and precious about their amps. Sorry!

    digitalscream said:

    As I discovered, guitar amps are also a lot more breakable than most gig-ready bass amps or drum kits. I used to let people use my amp (as long as they understood that they had a gnat's chance in hell of getting a clean sound out of it), until one guy wrecked one of mine by unplugging the speaker cab and plugging it into a new one while it was switched on and his mate was playing at gig volume. Cost me almost as much as I'd paid for the amp in repairs.
    OK, you were unlucky - although that special kind of idiocy could kill a solid-state bass amp too, in fact. My experience over the years I did this sort of gigs was that the drum kit actually suffers the most damage, which was another reason my drummer got fed up of headlining.

    I really don't agree that the guitar amp is a more integral part of the sound of a guitar than the drum kit is to the drummer either.

    I know this really isn't going to make me popular , but frankly if you can't plug your guitar and/or pedals into any provided amp that's loud enough and has at least a usable clean channel and get a fair approximation of your own sound then the problem isn't in the amp.

    To be accurate I would always take pedals chosen with the precise purpose of being able to achieve that through more or less any amp, but that's what you should expect at a gig like this.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • ICBM said:
    Cirrus said:

    Thing is, guitar amps are such a vital part of the sound of the instrument. If you go for the sound of an open back combo you'll be disappointed if you have to run through a 4x12. If you're playing originals, you're an artist. If you're an artist, anyone who thinks this is an unreasonably finickity position to take can fuck off - they're not the ones who have to stand in front of a room full of people and bare their souls!
    Seriously? I'm a combo user and I never had a problem playing through any provided amp, combo or head/cabinet, which was loud enough and had at least a decent full tone, and I always sounded like me.

    Artist, baring your soul? D  You're playing at a local multi-band gig mostly for members of the other bands and your/their friends. Maybe slightly different if you're headlining, but then you're probably bringing your own gear…

    Still just my opinion obviously, but basically that sort of thing confirms what I think about guitarists being far too finicky and precious about their amps. Sorry!

    digitalscream said:

    As I discovered, guitar amps are also a lot more breakable than most gig-ready bass amps or drum kits. I used to let people use my amp (as long as they understood that they had a gnat's chance in hell of getting a clean sound out of it), until one guy wrecked one of mine by unplugging the speaker cab and plugging it into a new one while it was switched on and his mate was playing at gig volume. Cost me almost as much as I'd paid for the amp in repairs.
    OK, you were unlucky - although that special kind of idiocy could kill a solid-state bass amp too, in fact. My experience over the years I did this sort of gigs was that the drum kit actually suffers the most damage, which was another reason my drummer got fed up of headlining.

    I really don't agree that the guitar amp is a more integral part of the sound of a guitar than the drum kit is to the drummer either.

    I know this really isn't going to make me popular , but frankly if you can't plug your guitar and/or pedals into any provided amp that's loud enough and has at least a usable clean channel and get a fair approximation of your own sound then the problem isn't in the amp.

    To be accurate I would always take pedals chosen with the precise purpose of being able to achieve that through more or less any amp, but that's what you should expect at a gig like this.
    But many (like myself) prefer the drive of an amp over pedals, maybe I'm mistaken, but the unspoken rule when I was gigging an originals band was, use head and cab set ups, then it's easy to just swap a head over or even stack em on top of each other, and just swap cables.

    Routine was, arrive, load in, pick who's cab is getting used,set up and sound check, watch the awkward sod with the combo argue with sound guy........
    " Why does it smell of bum?" Mrs Professorben.
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  • The few multi band gigs I did like this there was a combo and a cab (ubiquitous Valvestates) with no head so you had the choice. I think the guitarists who struggled most were those who brought a multi fx to use into the combo, realised all their settings sounded shit through an unfamiliar amp and spent half their gig kneeling down trying to work out how to alter their settings. 

    Tipton is a small fishing village in the borough of Sandwell. 
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  • CirrusCirrus Frets: 8481
    edited February 2017
    ICBM said:
    Cirrus said:

    Thing is, guitar amps are such a vital part of the sound of the instrument. If you go for the sound of an open back combo you'll be disappointed if you have to run through a 4x12. If you're playing originals, you're an artist. If you're an artist, anyone who thinks this is an unreasonably finickity position to take can fuck off - they're not the ones who have to stand in front of a room full of people and bare their souls!
    Seriously? I'm a combo user and I never had a problem playing through any provided amp, combo or head/cabinet, which was loud enough and had at least a decent full tone, and I always sounded like me.

    Artist, baring your soul? D  You're playing at a local multi-band gig mostly for members of the other bands and your/their friends. Maybe slightly different if you're headlining, but then you're probably bringing your own gear…

    Still just my opinion obviously, but basically that sort of thing confirms what I think about guitarists being far too finicky and precious about their amps. Sorry!


    .................


    I know this really isn't going to make me popular , but frankly if you can't plug your guitar and/or pedals into any provided amp that's loud enough and has at least a usable clean channel and get a fair approximation of your own sound then the problem isn't in the amp.
    @ICBM, it's great that you take such pride in being able to play through anything. Or, to look at it from another point of view, how little you care what you sound like beyond a broad idea of having a decent full tone. 

    You've always struck me as a rational man, so I will reply rationally.

    You can do whatever makes you happy when you gig, within the constraints of reason. I will do likewise. If you want to belittle the way I feel about playing original music or the way I like to have my own rig set up when I play live, that's your prerogative. But I don't particularly like it, and I'm not sure why you think you need to give me a dose of reality -  "You're playing at a local multi-band gig mostly for members of the other bands and your/their friends." So?

    I have, in fact, used house cabs and amps when I've needed to and you know what? It sounded fine and didn't ruin the gig or my ability to play. So don't confuse my wanting to use my own rig because I like it with being unable to get a usable sound another way.

    ICBM said:

    I really don't agree that the guitar amp is a more integral part of the sound of a guitar than the drum kit is to the drummer either.
    Personally, neither do I. Obviously the drum kit is an integral part of the sound of the drummer, because of what an insanely large number of options there are for tuning, shell size, cymbal selection etc. There is truth that a lot of the sound of the drummer is the way they play, but I have a theory that if Neil Peart had to use Ringo's old Ludwig kit at a gig, it'd sound pretty different.

    The only practical difference is, if 5 drummers all insisted on using their own kit a gig would become untenable far more quickly than if 5 guitarists bring their amps.
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  • CirrusCirrus Frets: 8481
    I guess what I'm saying is, baws ta ya.  =) B)
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  • ICBM said:
    Cirrus said:

    Thing is, guitar amps are such a vital part of the sound of the instrument. If you go for the sound of an open back combo you'll be disappointed if you have to run through a 4x12. If you're playing originals, you're an artist. If you're an artist, anyone who thinks this is an unreasonably finickity position to take can fuck off - they're not the ones who have to stand in front of a room full of people and bare their souls!
    Seriously? I'm a combo user and I never had a problem playing through any provided amp, combo or head/cabinet, which was loud enough and had at least a decent full tone, and I always sounded like me.

    Artist, baring your soul? D  You're playing at a local multi-band gig mostly for members of the other bands and your/their friends. Maybe slightly different if you're headlining, but then you're probably bringing your own gear…

    Still just my opinion obviously, but basically that sort of thing confirms what I think about guitarists being far too finicky and precious about their amps. Sorry!
    The best advice I ever had was, "Play every gig like it's a stadium show, otherwise you're cheating the audience and losing opportunities". There should be no difference between supporting a band at a local pub and headlining at the O2; not caring how you sound just because you don't respect the audience as much...not cool IMO, and if I was running a band with anyone who felt that way then I'd be looking for their replacement immediately.

    As a general rule, in fact, it's pretty easy to hear the difference between bands who spend a lot of time on their sound and those who don't. The former tend to sound clear, and the latter sound like a band of people who think it's cool to be in a band.
    ICBM said:
    I know this really isn't going to make me popular , but frankly if you can't plug your guitar and/or pedals into any provided amp that's loud enough and has at least a usable clean channel and get a fair approximation of your own sound then the problem isn't in the amp.
    Unless you play in a rock/metal band and you get all the drive from your three-channel amp, and your pedals are set up specifically to account for that (ie mostly effects and the amp footswitch). The suggestion that the problem is the player if they rely on their amp to get all their drive tones strikes me as a bit unfair.

    Of course, I could look at it from the perspective that "get all your distortion from your pedals into a clean amp" is an interesting position for an amp tech to take :D
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71963
    professorben said:

    But many (like myself) prefer the drive of an amp over pedals, maybe I'm mistaken, but the unspoken rule when I was gigging an originals band was, use head and cab set ups, then it's easy to just swap a head over or even stack em on top of each other, and just swap cables.

    Routine was, arrive, load in, pick who's cab is getting used,set up and sound check, watch the awkward sod with the combo argue with sound guy........
    Which is why, if there was going to be a usable cab there and at least one head, I would always leave my amp at home and plug into the stack, and not mind!

    I also prefer amp drive for a crunch sound, so if the provided amp had a clean and crunch channel, great. If it didn't I would use a pedal.

    Cirrus said:

    @ICBM, it's great that you take such pride in being able to play through anything. Or, to look at it from another point of view, how little you care what you sound like beyond a broad idea of having a decent full tone. 
    The first ;). I actually do care quite a lot, I just find the amp is much less critical than a lot of guitarists seem to think.

    Cirrus said:

    I have, in fact, used house cabs and amps when I've needed to and you know what? It sounded fine and didn't ruin the gig or my ability to play.
    Exactly.

    Cirrus said:

    So don't confuse my wanting to use my own rig because I like it with being unable to get a usable sound another way.
    That was pretty much the impression you gave though :).

    Cirrus said:

    Personally, neither do I. Obviously the drum kit is an integral part of the sound of the drummer, because of what an insanely large number of options there are for tuning, shell size, cymbal selection etc. There is truth that a lot of the sound of the drummer is the way they play, but I have a theory that if Neil Peart had to use Ringo's old Ludwig kit at a gig, it'd sound pretty different.

    The only practical difference is, if 5 drummers all insisted on using their own kit a gig would become untenable far more quickly than if 5 guitarists bring their amps.
    Obviously - but it's really quite a pain when guitarists bring too many amps too... so if the drummers are going to have to just live with it, why do guitarists seem to think they're exempt from showing a bit of common sense?

    digitalscream said:

    As a general rule, in fact, it's pretty easy to hear the difference between bands who spend a lot of time on their sound and those who don't. The former tend to sound clear, and the latter sound like a band of people who think it's cool to be in a band.
    We always prided ourselves on have a well-worked-out, clear sound that took about five minutes to set up and soundcheck, too. Different amps don't stop that being true, you just need to know how to dial things in. Oddly enough the ones with the worst sounds tended to be the ones who insisted on using their own gear even when it was a complete pain, in my experience - probably not coincidentally.

    digitalscream said:

    Unless you play in a rock/metal band and you get all the drive from your three-channel amp, and your pedals are set up specifically to account for that (ie mostly effects and the amp footswitch). The suggestion that the problem is the player if they rely on their amp to get all their drive tones strikes me as a bit unfair.
    You can always still do that with a decent outboard preamp. That's why I used the Mesa V-Twin, because my own amp was a Mesa. You need to prepare, basically.

    I think we're probably less far apart on this than I thought originally, but I still found that by far the most unreasonable and finicky musicians were the guitarists. I've actually heard the phrase "I can't play through that" more than once, when shown a perfectly good amp...

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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