The attenuation quest continues..

SunDevil

Those long suffering gurus of the Forum might remember that I've had issues using a Fryette Power Station with any beam tetrode power valves and in an effort to circumnavigate the issue, I've been trying some other solutions?

I've recently tried a passive line level out being re-amped via the line level in on the Fryette Power Station and this sounds pants 

I'm now looking at using an loadbox with an active DI out to get a higher fidelity signal to feed into the Power Station's line level and then to the cab

The box in question (Radial Headload Prodigy) offers 3 outputs

1) Mic level balanced XLR
2) Simulated and non-simulated TRS outs (To feed another stage amp or effects)
3) Headphone out 

The Power Station line in "..accepts any signal from a line level source such as amplifier line out, effects processor or preamp"

So, can I sensibly connect any of DI outs to the Power Station line in and get quality results?

If not, so I need to bump the signal to line level and how should I do this for the best results? ..Will this adaptor with a 29dB bump do the job?

 http://www.shure.com/americas/products/accessories/microphones/microphone-problem-solvers/a85f-line-matching-transformer

Baz

Cabicular

It'll work, I'm not sure how it will sound though...
Refresh my memory , whats the amp and are you trying to make it louder or quieter?

SunDevil

It's anything running 6v6, 5581, KT66, 6L6, with or without NFB- had this with 6 different amps and counting

Also happens with 2 Power Stations, multiple cables, cabs etc etc

A straight resistive load attenuator works fine, but at the levels I plan play at home, it gets buzzy

So I think the active DI is the way ahead, it's just how to optimise the signal path?

Cabicular

Can I suggest a different path?
What I do at home is shove the amp input into a reactive load (in my case a torpedo reload) and then take the DI into a DAW where I can load up any number of speaker IRs and have very convincing cranked amps at very controlled volumes
added bonus is I can also record them and re-cab later 
The Torpedo also has a speaker out with a contour control and a volume so you can run into a normal cab when you want to get loud 
part of the problem you are going to have is that you aren't moving enough air to get the speakers to sound good and this is where Cabinet IRS can really help simulate that sound

SunDevil

Hi @Cabicular , thanks for the info and suggestion. I'm sure it's a solid approach, but I'm personally looking to keep as analog as possible and retain the amps dynamics and response as much as I can.

The Radial Prodigy is in the post, so I'm really just looking for some forum help working out which output to connect to the line in on the Power Station

1) Mic level balanced XLR
2) Simulated and non-simulated TRS outs (To feed another stage amp or effects)
3) Headphone out 

The Power Station line in "..accepts any signal from a line level source such as amplifier line out, effects processor or preamp"

So, can I sensibly connect any of DI outs to the Power Station line in and get quality results?

If not, so I need to bump the signal to line level and how should I do this for the best results? ..Will this adaptor with a 29dB bump do the job?

 http://www.shure.com/americas/products/accessories/microphones/microphone-problem-solvers/a85f-line-matching-transformer

Cheers

Baz

Cabicular

Any of those should be ok for the line in
I don't really see what the adaptor would give you
that the line out doesn't
I'm also not entirely sure of the role of the power station in this excercise?

Cabicular

If your aim is to make the amp work but at lower volumes then why not just let the attenuator do its job?
what you seem to be doing is attentuating down to line level and then boosting back up with the power station?
Im not sure I'm following the logic here

ThePrettyDamned

Isn't this the kind of thing that axe fx and helix are built for? It might be a much, much less headache inducing solution than the faffing with attenuators and loads. 

Cabicular

I can understand not wanting to go for amp modelling but tbh the best way to get the sound of a driven cabinet quietly is via impulse responses
i have a Friedman PT20 that sounds just wonderful through the Marshall 25 greenback 4x12 IR
you don't lose any of the amp dynamics or tone. It's just like having it mixed in a studio

ICBM

Try a THD Hotplate. Works well with 6L6/6V6 amps in my experience, and is passive so avoids all this bother.

Or if you're feeling brave, do you remember that 'Ultimate' attenuator I rebuilt? I never got around to fitting it with an FX loop and it's just gathering dust somewhere. That's a dummy load with a line out, as well as the re-amp bit.

SunDevil

Thanks all

I recently picked up an Airbrake with a line out - it actually does a really decent job on it's own (waaay better than the Rock Crusher I used to have), but this version is only giving about 6dB attenuation and it's not enough for home use (50w head, 212 with 100dB speakers, 'cause that's what you need in a terrace house, right? :-))

The lineout really didn't work, but the idea was to line in to the Power Stations power section (it's a reactive load in front of a clean amp and you can bypass the load) and so bypass the reactive load that I think it's causing the issue with the beam tetrodes, but still get to adjust my overall volume level better than a passive stepped attenuator 

I stumbled across the Headload Prodigy when I was looking for a way to clean up the line out signal on the airbrake, and in theory it gives me a flat 10dB attenuation (which may be about right) and the option of emulated or non-emulated outs, plus a headphone option. The idea was that if the 10dB didn't sound good, that I had the option to take a clean DI signal into the power side of the Power Station and hey presto!

..yep, it's complex and I do appreciate that I'm veering towards a digital setup, but I'd like to give the Headload a whirl and if that's a pain in the backside, then I'll try the THD

TimmyO

Mate, take a look at the Two Notes Torpedo Reload - sounds like it does what you need.

Declaration: I'm selling one as I've gone Helix, but seriously I found it to be flawless 

Tim

SunDevil

Hi Tim,

Thanks for the tip - tried one a year back and got the same issue as I have with the Power Station - nasty buzz coming from low notes when in the edge of breakup and it's obviously specific to th way I use these things, as there's many satisfied customers of the PS and the Torpedo out there (..been around the houses on this one!)

The Torpedo stood up well against the Power Station :-)

SunDevil

So, to report back to class..

The Radial Headload (that actually sent me the full fat Headload rather than the Prodigy, but it's essentially the same for my purposes was a bit 'meh' as a straight attenuator and DI'd into the Power Station, was just as distorted and mushy as the Airbrake .

Given a choice of the two, the Airbake is much better at the same levels of attenuation, but doesn't attempt to do home playing levels with a 50w head

I've also just tried the Airbrake DI into a straight 600w SS power amp and this is much better that going to the Power Station and miles better than the Headload for less money.

However, with a more overdrive amp (Express type) it really didn't work

So in conclusion, I think the Power Station is still about as good as it gets for pentode powered amps at home levels, but from my experiences, you might be better off with an Airbrake type resistive attenuator for 6L6s and similar Tetrodes?

ICBM

Would a Sequis Motherload Elemental be worth a try? I know someone selling one (my old one!).

SunDevil

Thanks @icbm, but I feel like I've pretty much flogged the DI route to death - every combination of kit I've tried has sounded worse than the Power Station issue I've been trying to get around.

The Headload sounded like all the other resistive attenuators I've tried, but the Airbrake seems to have more dynamics and something a bit more interesting going on.

I'm rolled down to 4 on a Strat at the volumes I can play at home, but I'm using it with an EZG, so it's a clean machine anyway.

Much appreciate all the input none the less