I want to start with daw & need a keyboard controller. what do I need/want? new bee!

shrinkwrap

I can recommend the cheaper Nectar LX Impact too. Easy to set up the knobs so you can change VST instrument settings as you play - if you like that sort of synth knob twiddling stuff! Got mine 2nd hand for £70 - bargain.
I really think mini keys or two octaves is a compromise too far - and there aren't so many 3 octave k/b around.
I've heard of issues with MAudio controllers but no idea how accurate that is.
I don't have a smart phone either!
DAW's and plugins are not hard - just have to get over that first big learning hill to be up and running.
(another Reaper user here)

vale

TheBlueWolf said:

VST Planet is your friend for free virtual instruments, plugins, etc

http://www.vstplanet.com/

big thanks for that link bluewolf, looks a great. have a feeling i'm going to use the shit out of that one in due course.

as to the focusrite, will try it since i bought it. was my chrissy pressie to myself 2015, been dreading getting into this ever since (15 months & counting).

i am a nice person until a computer won't do what i want it to do & then... i get very unattractive.
seriously, if someone else had the tantrums i let myself get into with tech, i would tell them to get help. it's shameful, really.

vale

benmurray85 said:

Hi @vale you sound like you're in a very similar situation, and of a similar level of numpty ability to me ;-) no offence!!!

i use reaper and the Scarlett 2i2 for some pretty decent results at home. If you want any advice or help or whatever concerning these two then give me a shout. I may have spent hiurs pouring over the same problem and if I can save you some time then great!

thanks for the offer @benmurray85
i may well take you up on that offer since reaper seems to be the people's favourite. i am guessing you tried the ableton freeware that came with it & prefer reaper? or were you using reaper anyway & added to scarlett to it when it arrived?

& thankq.for offer re giving you a shout on scarlett/reaper issues, i may well take you up. once i have calmed down enough to type, which may be weeks! (see my above post about tech red mist).

vale

normula1 said:

I'm new to this myself and am also using the Scarlett 2i2. If you have the 1st Gen, you can use the 2nd Gen drivers (only on the 2i2 and 4i2 I believe) and that reduces the latency somewhat.
I've been using the bundled Ableton Live Lite so far with some freeware amp sims and impulse responses (search for Ignite Amps) and the sounds are quite reasonable. I've stolen my son's old Yamaha keyboard as a MIDI controller for keys so that's working out too. 
Hopefully you've registered the 2i2 as you get free bundles each month.

thankq @normula1 i haven't thought about drivers yet. but faster better so useful to know. gen2 seems to have appeared since i bought mine.

didn't know about registering. i thought i would do that once i was in a position to use it, so it's been in its box on my shelf for over a year.
my thinking was that if i registered it & didn't use it, whatever registering is might expire by the time i got to use it. like putting credits on a mobile that expire if you don't use within the month.
but looks like this might be the other way around & i have missed out on a year's worth of useful freebies, dammit.

vale

TheBigDipper said:

@vale  
I started my recording journey a year or two ago from a similar place and similar expertise/knowledge as you. I’ve learned a lot - especially what is and is not important when playing this game. I also learned that what I thought I wanted and what I actually used once I had it are different things. Thanks for fleshing out the picture in your recent post. As always, take the skewed opinions of a friendly stranger with a pinch of salt… 

Computer:  Make sure you have at least two USB sockets. Lots of kit will not work properly if you try and use a USB hub. You’ll need one for the Focusrite and one for the keyboard controller.

* ok, will aim for as many as it can handle when i get some options. my step-dad seems to find these things from friends upgrading & he chops them around according to what family need, so i will put in a request for that specific.

DAW:  Any DAW is fine when you’re getting started. Reaper is well-liked (I’ve never used it). Ableton is fine with a different workflow that some love and some don’t. I use GarageBand and Logic Pro, because I’m in the Applesphere. Just pick one and get started!

You can change later on when you’ve got some personal opinions about the one you’re using to help you decide what you really need in a DAW. I, for example, am finding Logic gives me more functionality than I need and forces me to make too many choices. I can be just as productive most of the time with GarageBand. I’m seriously thinking of reverting back to GB. 

* thanks for those insights. i can see myself having a two-tier system of some kind to reconcile the same thing you mention; one superbasic 4track polaroid-type recorder for quick capture of demo ideas. just to hear di x next to di y.
& then one for the deep & heavy work. building up, applying effects, mixing down, etc. the monster.
am not an apple-peep so never tried garage band but that format (as i understand it from what i hear of it) sounds a bit like my first need. basic & ready to go.
as to second, reaper or ableton, for my full-on.

Audio Interface:  The Focusrite is more than fine. 

MIDI:  You probably know this already, but very briefly…  MIDI devices often have 3 MIDI ports as well as (or instead of) a MIDI USB port. They are 5-pin DIN-style sockets. 

MIDI In is the port that receives the MIDI commands which tell your device what to do - change a channel, run a drum pattern, etc.  MIDI Out is the port that sends MIDI commands to tell another device what to do - play this note on the software synth in your computer, alter the volume on a fader, etc. 
MIDI Thru is a port that you use to connect a second MIDI device to your setup so that the MIDI commands it sends are not acted upon by the first device you’ve attached it to but just passed through to the next one. Some devices double up and the MIDI In or MIDI Out is also the MIDI Thru port. 

If you want to connect a device to your computer that only has MIDI sockets, you can a MIDI-to-USB converter cable. This might be a good idea for connecting your SR-16, as it can be used as a MIDI controller - using the pads to play software drums, for example. You could also do the same with your MicroKorg, I believe, so maybe you don’t need another keyboard yet. 

* i assure you, you cannot underestimate my ignorance on this matter. new bee! i am at 'the ladybird book of daw' level.
as for controllers, i have been not in superb health this week (hence delayed reply) but watched few more demos on & intros to controllers on ytube & have a better idea of what i want.
my main worry with trying to get by with using other things not primarily designed to be used as controllers per se (espesh dated things; sr16 (1990) & microkorg (2002)) is that it will create one more layer of complication i need to negotiate before i can get to the 'getting on with it' stage.
so have decided to go to go for a decent s/h 49 key basic that will be easy plug in & go with the reapers, ableton, loops. pay the small premium for absolute convenience.

Controllers: I did read what you wrote about a single controller that does it all - control the DAW, play pads, play the keyboard, etc. Originally, I owned an Alesis M-25. That was a very simple 25 key keyboard with two programmable control wheels and one fader. I used it for everything - recording keyboard parts, hitting piano keys to trigger drums, etc. I didn’t use it to control the DAW because it couldn’t. 

When it broke, I bought an M-Audio Code 49. More keys for piano playing (I don’t play piano, but…). Faders to control the DAW mixer. Pads to play drum parts. Tape transport controls to pause/play/record. Rotary controls to do panning. X-Y pads for whatever…  I found that, for me, it wasn’t any better than using the mouse to do most of this stuff (I do use the pads to play drum parts, but none of the other functions). I would use a fader to set a volume control on the DAW but still spend time looking at the computer screen to see what it was doing. I was quicker just using the mouse.

So, despite initially wanting the integrated controller that you want, in practice I don’t use it like that. As a one man unit recording one track at a time, I really don’t spend any time “flying” the desk making adjustments. 

My advice (if the MicroKorg won’t work for you as a controller) is to buy a really cheap 25 note MIDI keyboard and use that for as much as you can. If the keys are smaller than standard it probably won’t matter because you’re not a pianist. If any clumsy fingers make mistakes, you can edit the MIDI file on your DAW afterwards. That’s what I do for note errors and timing errors. 

If that keyboard has proper MIDI sockets and one of them supports MIDI Thru, you should be able to connect your SR-16 to it and use that for pads - yet still only have one USB cable into the computer.

* that's interesting perspective. that mouse-use/controller-use division is something i don't think i will know until i start playing. i can only imagine that constantly having to swap between the two might become a bit of a chore. good to see how you rationalised that one.
as mentioned above, i'm going to chase down a basic s/h 49er with a few pads & few rotaries but nothing extravagant or involved. & once i get a feel for the science, review that.

Hope this helps, amigo, and that the 30 mins it took me to write it will save you lots more time and anguish than that! Good luck!

a mighty thankyou for that comprehensive & insightful post, @TheBigDipper great comment (have edited into you post with asterix (bless him) rather than attempt a chop up dip in/out edit).

& good luck to you with you projects too!

ToneControl

if Reaper was available when I started  I would be all over  it. Cheap and semi-Pro level
stick with windows or Mac for DAW, really
Bizarrely, Logic is very cheap for what it is, but you need to buy into apple world first

Be aware the first generation scarlett 2i2 had problems with electric guitar overdriving the DI input, messing up clean sounds: e.g. this review
"“avoid Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, the headroom is not high enough for DI guitars.  Even the 2i4 with pad cuts it fine but just about has enough headroom for most applications, I've never clipped it but have been close (IIRC I was getting peaks at -3 with pad engaged and gain on zero).  I have 2i4 for mobile and 18i20, but to be honest I only record DIs at home and have found better results using a Palmer Active DI box.  For mic preamps the Scarletts are fine.”

Somewhat tellingly, the focusrite website has this on the page for every secondn generation scarlett IO:
"Designed for Guitarists

No matter how loud you play, or how hot your pick-ups, the newly-designed instrument inputs can handle it. You'll be free to play without the worry of unwanted distortion."

guitarfishbay

That review looks like I wrote it?

I haven't tried the newest generation Scarletts but  I've since got the Orchid Classic DI box which is fantastic for £36 and would solve issues if you are getting clipping with interface DIs.  I needed a second DI, the active Palmer is around £50.  There's not much in it but I slightly prefer the Orchid, it seems to sound a bit nicer with my bass guitar.  Even if the tone difference is tiny the only reason to buy the Palmer over the Orchid IMO would be the Palmer is slightly smaller.

vale

@ToneControl ;; thanks for your recommendation for the reaper. seems they have really won hearts & minds in the freeware (kinda) market. so definitely going to try it.

& for the heads up on the clipping thing. i had read mixed reviews when i chose it. some people say it affect them & others not at all (what do you recommend for a budget interface btw?)

but scarlett seemed best all around option on my budget if it works with everything. & (as @guitarfishbay mentions) some have said the issue can be effectively got around with a DI box. so will try that.
i've got a behringer D120 which is pretty basic but gets decent reviews so will see what happens & go from there.
http://static.weloveshopping.com/shop/music-boulevard/extra/9802237.jpg

ToneControl

guitarfishbay said:

That review looks like I wrote it?

I haven't tried the newest generation Scarletts but  I've since got the Orchid Classic DI box which is fantastic for £36 and would solve issues if you are getting clipping with interface DIs.  I needed a second DI, the active Palmer is around £50.  There's not much in it but I slightly prefer the Orchid, it seems to sound a bit nicer with my bass guitar.  Even if the tone difference is tiny the only reason to buy the Palmer over the Orchid IMO would be the Palmer is slightly smaller.

I pasted it from an email I sent to a dealer when I refused his advice to buy one 2 years ago
checking, yet- it's your post I took it from. Cheers for the advice back then, a quick search now shows that hundreds of people have this problem

ToneControl

vale said:

@ToneControl ;; thanks for your recommendation for the reaper. seems they have really won hearts & minds in the freeware (kinda) market. so definitely going to try it.

& for the heads up on the clipping thing. i had read mixed reviews when i chose it. some people say it affect them & others not at all (what do you recommend for a budget interface btw?)

but scarlett seemed best all around option on my budget if it works with everything. & (as @guitarfishbay mentions) some have said the issue can be effectively got around with a DI box. so will try that.
i've got a behringer D120 which is pretty basic but gets decent reviews so will see what happens & go from there.
http://static.weloveshopping.com/shop/music-boulevard/extra/9802237.jpg

I have a DI-20 too, they are very good for the cash

For a (not-as) cheap IO, I bought a Komplete Audio 6
Much more flexible, and some nice freebies: Komplete Elements, which contains one of the 2 best PC amp-sim plugins that I have found, and various sample players and other pro-level tools

TheBlueWolf

@vale ;

Ask us loads of questions! There's often a deceptively easy answer to any issues you're having. Don't beat yourself, or your computer, either; this is a learning curve, so take your time

vale

TheBlueWolf said:

@vale ;

Ask us loads of questions! There's often a deceptively easy answer to any issues you're having. Don't beat yourself, or your computer, either; this is a learning curve, so take your time

thanks a lot @TheBlueWolf & everyone else who has offered ideas & recommendations.

i'm actually kind of overwhelmed by how much came out of my original request. i thought maybe a couple of replies with names of peoples' controllers, but a whole crash course 'the fretboard introduction to daw' suddenly appeared from nowhere.

very impressive & very confidence inspiring too. & hopefully future members with the same question can find it using search so it will have a value beyond my immediate curiosity.

will get a computer & start asap. can't kid myself i don't know enough to make a start now.