Any Tokai experts out there?

Lebarque

Hi, I'm thinking about making an offer on a beautiful, used, natural ES 120 N and wondered whether anyone could give me any info on it?  Serial number is 0510243  I gather it was made in Japan in 2005, but what are the specs? Nitro? Bone nut? Gotoh hardware? Pickups? Centre block? Does this guitar have a modern equivalent in terms of spec? UES.....? And I guess the ultimate question, is it a good model to get?! I'm trying to get a grip of how much I should offer.  Thanks in advance for your help

skikdi53

Good guitar, PU if original needs to be changed but they sound "correct". UES models are for UK market, the same just a little difference in the headstock( not exactly gibson). 
Price, have sold mine since few months for 850 Euros, i think 650 pounds is a good price.

skikdi53

Mine sold in french forum.
http://www.guitariste.com/forums/achat-vente-echange,vends-tokai-es-120,493553.html

Dave_Mc

Check out the tokai registry forum, they know their stuff there and should be able to help you.

Lebarque

Thanks, both. Can anyone else help?

guitars4you

most of the Jap built Tokais are a cut above your regular Epiphones etc so well worth persuing - I can't recall, without browsing the likes of google, if the ES120 is nitro or not and bone nut or not - It will be centre block but even Gibson have changed the finer detail of this many times over the years, so for its price i would not get to hung up about vintage DNA details - I agree @skikdi53 that the pick-ups are okay, but a better set can be installed as required

I've probably sold more used ES130's over the last 3-5 years but I guess any ES120 in good nick around £600/700 is good - I think (need to brush up on this) but later ES120's are not made in Japan - but 2005 should be - what is the asking price

Lebarque

Thanks, @guitars4you. He's asking £1,100 which sounded a bit steep, hence my enquiries. Sounds like es120 is the cheapest Jap made Tokai then? What do Es130s have over it? Give me a shout if you get any more Tokai semis in, cheers! Or Heritage for that matter...

Lebarque

All I know is, I played a new UES 158 recently and loved it. About £1200 new I think. So want to find something used of equal or better quality.

guitars4you

Lebarque said:

Thanks, @guitars4you. He's asking £1,100 which sounded a bit steep, hence my enquiries. Sounds like es120 is the cheapest Jap made Tokai then? What do Es130s have over it? Give me a shout if you get any more Tokai semis in, cheers! Or Heritage for that matter...

sounds far to much IMO - is this a UK seller - the ES120 is the cheapest Jap Tokai - think even these are now made elsewhere in the far east - Dealers like The Little Guitar Shop in Birmingham are selling various new Tokais not much above that with a higher spec - will update you if I get a nice used Tokai or Heritage - cheers

Basher

No expert but I used to own a Tokai ES120 in natural from, IIRC, 2003 or thereabouts.

It was a fine guitar. I had the pickups changed for Seth Lovers (just because I had some lying about) but the originals were pretty close - certainly close enough to make the change unnecessary - so that says a lot. 

One common misconception about these was that they had nitro lacquer. I read this several times in contemporary reviews but It didn't feel like one to me. I emailed the distributor who replied, confirming that it was a poly finish. 

I would not let that put you off. The whole "breathability" myth is particularly mad with semi-solids as you have the entire interior unfinished so it can, presumably, "breathe" all it wants that way!

I think the biggest thing that put people off at the time was a narrow-ish nut width but mine felt fine to me. Not too wide I'll admit but not as narrow as the late 60s Gibsons. The profile was the full-but-not-too-fat 50s spec that Tokai do so well. By comparison, Gibson seem to offer matchstick thin or telegraph pole thick with very little in-between.

Lebarque

Thanks, @basher

ChrisMusic

The model numbers of these Tokai's and some other Japanese brands can be very confusing.  It is basically a couple of letters for the model followed by it's cost in thousand Yen at the time.  So an ES120 cost ¥120,000 in 2005 when this was made.  The Yen price will now be substantially higher for a new model, so the model number will have also changed, for exactly the same guitar !

I have a stunning Tokai LP quilt top from 2003 which I believe was ¥85,000 at the time, the same model about four years ago had risen to ¥105,000 with a subsequent and confusing change in it's model designation.  So you really need to read model numbers in conjunction with year of manufacture to gain a proper perspective    @-)