Look out for JHS pre-lawsuit guitars!

SteveRobinson

Gibson confirms exclusive rights to trademarked guitar designs in legal dispute with JHS

http://www.mi-pro.co.uk/news/read/gibson-confirms-exclusive-rights-to-trademarked-guitar-designs-in-legal-dispute-with-jhs/022100

Gibson has announced that it has successfully confirmed the exclusive rights to various trademarked body and headstock designs [and] now has exclusive rights to the design of its iconic ES, SG, Flying V and Explorer guitar models.

Bridgehouse

Ah, so thats how they hope to clear off their debt.

Not by selling guitars, but by suing everyone else that makes guitars...




*sigh*

timmysoft

Shame it wasn't the other JHS. 

crunchman

From what I've read I'm not sure whether Gibson have those trademarks in the UK.  If JHS stop selling "Vintage" brand guitars in the US the problem largely goes away.

Bridgehouse

Knowing Gibson they will probably try to sue Epiphone next...

impmann

Shame - the Vibrola equipped SGs were as good as the big G... the trems certainly kept in tune better, even if the pickups were a tad bland.

FelineGuitars

Is the wider implication from this that Gibson can pursue any other company with ease who may have made a V, SG , 335
Will Collings /heritage etc get cease and desists for 335 style 

impmann

FelineGuitars said:

Is the wider implication from this that Gibson can pursue any other company with ease who may have made a V, SG , 335
Will Collings /heritage etc get cease and desists for 335 style 

Probably.

But then with the '335 style' shape, where do you stop? The Hofner Verithin was 'almost' a 335 shape. The Fender Coronado was a bit like a shrinky-dink 335.

Ancient_Mariner

I'm reasonably sure that Heritage worked things out with Gibson over copyright in the past, since they've been making Les Pauls (on what was previously Gibson's own tooling in an ex-Gibson factory) for years. Everybody else may have something to fear though.

guitars4you

impmann said:

FelineGuitars said:

Is the wider implication from this that Gibson can pursue any other company with ease who may have made a V, SG , 335
Will Collings /heritage etc get cease and desists for 335 style 

Probably.

But then with the '335 style' shape, where do you stop? The Hofner Verithin was 'almost' a 335 shape. The Fender Coronado was a bit like a shrinky-dink 335.

don't know the 'exact' details of this court case - In the past intellectual copy right has been based on the headstock and brand name/logo - A copy right on a body shape would be a different case - After all many steel string acoustic guitars are effectively a Martin Dreadnought D18 etc

all denim jeans look the same as do many trainers - the difference is the logo and brand name - that is why the Nike tick and the Adidas 3 strips are so genius 

In the past when Gibson have 'threatened' legal intent, ie with Duesenberg on a Schenker style V and Tom Anderson with the LP influenced Bulldog, then in each case Duesenberg and Anderson effectively looked at the cost of defending themselves v the profit made and profit potential of the models  appertaining to a potential court case - No contest - So the mighty Gibson win just by a legal letter of intent

crunchman

After the first post this morning I googled it. I found some court documents from an earlier date in the process.  It didn't cover everything in the article that was linked, but one thing it did say is that Gibson have a trademark on the SG body shape in the US but not in the UK.  I'd imagine the same might well apply to the other body shapes as well.

Thinking about what @guitars4you said, it would be a much bigger issue for a US maker like Collings than for a British maker.  From a quick Google, the Collings I35 body is 15" wide and the 335 body is 16.5".  That would neatly get around any Gibson claims - especially after they got slapped down by the courts over the PRS Singlecut.  That may not be purely a legal thing.  There are some who would say that a slightly smaller 335 would be a good thing.  Look at the success of the 339.

guitars4you

crunchman said:

After the first post this morning I googled it. I found some court documents from an earlier date in the process.  It didn't cover everything in the article that was linked, but one thing it did say is that Gibson have a trademark on the SG body shape in the US but not in the UK.  I'd imagine the same might well apply to the other body shapes as well.

Regarding the trademark, I believe it is a similar story on the Fender pre-CBS headstock in that it was registered in the USA only - hence Tokai still sold early TST50 models in the UK but had them seized in the USA - yet around 50% of the world's sales of electric guitars is the USA, so effectively that drives so much of the world market

Evilmags

Gibson have already sued Heritage. They were told that since they sold Heritage the jigs used to make the guitars, they could hardly complain when they did.

Bridgehouse

Evilmags said:

Gibson have already sued Heritage. They were told that since they sold Heritage the jigs used to make the guitars, they could hardly complain when they did.

I would love to have been the lawyer delivering that case in front of Gibson!

I am now off for a shower after the above comment.

SteveRobinson

Heritage have modified the body shape though. The horn on current guitars is less pointed than that of a Les Paul. The semis also have detail differences that set them apart such as thicker binding...

Evilmags

SteveRobinson said:

Heritage have modified the body shape though. The horn on current guitars is less pointed than that of a Les Paul. The semis also have detail differences that set them apart such as thicker binding...

I think it was the Archtops they got sued for. 

Gassage

I am assuming they're still fighting tooth and nail over the often overlooked Moderne?

Rabs

I wonder if this will effect Chapman guitars.. He has a V and Explorer type shape.. I wonder what the exact rule is on how similar the shape can be?

Rox

I wonder if this will head for an appeal?  I mean, Fender lost their attempt to trademark the Stratocaster shape, didn't they?

Bit odd to have one rule for Fender and another for Gibson...

Chalky

The real question is "Why target JHS?" Of all the manufacturers they wouldn't seem to be a natural Gibson competitor.

guitars4you

Chalky said:

The real question is "Why target JHS?" Of all the manufacturers they wouldn't seem to be a natural Gibson competitor.

it will be more to do with JHS and Vintage models against Epiphone I bet - The threat to Gibson is not JHS brands itself, it is the budget market - Win the case via big brother and Gibson and own your own competition then