Not Wolf tones. Unwanted resonance/feedback - any advice

Jalapeno

My latest gas (thread to follow shortly) is a Gretsch New Yorker, it generates screaming feedback on 5th string at frets 5-7 with even just a brush of the string.

Apart from just avoid those frets on that string, anyone got any other advice ?

FelineGuitars

Unlikely to be wolf tones as many strat players experience from pickups being too close to strings and causing an interference with the free vibration of the low string , but sounds crazy - suspect it to be a resonance thing?

Jalapeno

Right. Forget wolf-tones then.

 I used to have a Tangle wood ES175 copy - that had similar resonance/feedback issues, eased a tad by a replacement rosewood compensated jazz bridge.

octatonic

Any chance of you recording a video of the problem?

crunchman

Feedback is more normally amp related.  You don't have a valve that's gone microphonic at that frequency do you?

If you have another guitar, does the amp do the same thing with that, or if you have another amp does this guitar do the same with that amp?

Jalapeno

Amp is s/s, Henricksen Jazz Amp, and this is at rehersal/performance volume not home noodling.

Doesn't do it with other (archtop) guitars.

Not tried it on another amp yet, PRRI would be most likely, or AER 60 perhaps

Going to try a different amp/guitar position (amp behind neck, rather than body).

ESchap

I agree with @crunchman about microphonic valves, if it's a high pitched squeal, though could be the pickup as well.

Does it build after you set the string vibrating?  or is it immediate? is it clearly a d - e note you're getting?

All my archtops do this to a greater or lesser degree; the position / note varies but they all have a "sweet" spot somewhere.  Aware of where it happens and appropriate damping is the only real cure I've found.

Jalapeno

No squeal.  Again - IT'S A SOLID STATE AMP !

Builds after any vibration and clearly limited to d-e on 5th string

Never happens on my Sadowsky Jim Hall Special (or my LeVoi Maccaferri via AER60)

ESchap

I've tried everything with my various Gibson's.    As you said, wooden bridges help, as do heavier strings and flat wounds, rolling off the bass on the amp can help too, as can your position in relation to the speaker, but ultimately if that top is going to resonate, it will and the only solution is have your right palm ready to stop it  ....  

ChrisMusic

Do you have a clip on tuner ?  You could try that to see if the weight changes the resonance of the neck, or maybe try a bit more weight with a few coins etc.  Don't know if that would narrow it down, worth a try mebee ?

WezV

ChrisMusic said:

Do you have a clip on tuner ?  You could try that to see if the weight changes the resonance of the neck, or maybe try a bit more weight with a few coins etc.  Don't know if that would narrow it down, worth a try mebee ?

Clip on tuner or Capo - If it is a resonance issue it may help, but sometimes just moves it to a different area. 

Other things to rule out are internal damage such as a loose part - worse case is a loose brace etc.

Its really hard to be specific without seeing the guitar

artiebear

It's a long shot but have you checked for any truss rod rattle ?. All it takes its for the rod to be sympathetically vibrating against the cavity on a single frequency ( usually a specific note or combo of notes) to create a vibration that travels through the guitar. All it takes to rectify it is a tiny adjustment either way. 

Jeremiah

How are the pickups mounted? Could it be vibration of mounting springs against the screws or the bottom of the pickup, or any other part of the mounting assembly?

ESBlonde

Yes as suggested a 'snuck up' on the truss rod may help to ensure the threads are engaged, no loose parts in the PUs and surrounds, push some foam or card beside the PUs to keep them very still and firm. Try clamp on weights (capo/tuner) in different locations on the peg head, and keep you right hand ready for a quick draw/damping, keeping it rested on the bridge ready worked for me.

Jalapeno

Pickup/Bridge pic - there's foam underneath

Roland

Maybe it's not holding it firmly enough?

guitars4you

I slightly confused by above and various suggestions - are you finding that a particular note, or two, on a particular string causes a howling type of feedback - if so this can be common such arch top models with such pick-ups - almost a sympathetic resonance to the guitars natural pitch and the note you play

various suggestions are based on volume you play and proximity to the amp - many old jazz players used very small amps then house pa to amplify accordingly for gigs to avoid this- and even early days of Scotty Moore with Elvis and they only used small amps - you can 'stuff' the body with foam, but I'm not sure how much that will diminish it, but worth a try - I've known players try a piece of pine dowel cut accordingly that is 'wedged' between the top/bottom of the body - like a sound post on a violin - to minimise vibration of teh top - maybe cuts back on the guitars natural acoustic voice but can help the amplified voice - Both 'cheap' options so try them out

Jalapeno

It's definitely sympathetic vibration.

Going to try harder packing under the floating pickup - felt pads like you put on chair legs when they're on hard floors to cut the noise, and dropping the scratchplate a tad to anchor the other end of the p/u (there's a lug for that).

guitars4you

Jalapeno said:

It's definitely sympathetic vibration.

Going to try harder packing under the floating pickup - felt pads like you put on chair legs when they're on hard floors to cut the noise, and dropping the scratchplate a tad to anchor the other end of the p/u (there's a lug for that).

if it is  a mechanical rattle as such then obviously try such mods - I'm still unsure if you mean it is mechanical or some sympathetic 'feedback' - let me know if I can help further

Jalapeno

Definitely feedback - don't know where this truss-rod rattle wibble etc came from

guitars4you

Jalapeno said:

Definitely feedback - don't know where this truss-rod rattle wibble etc came from

okay - that was why I asking - I think you need to try the internal 'sponge' and or string post dowel

see if this helps a bit - http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/everything-else/54976-archtop-feedback-how-do-you-deal.html