Tested out some FRFR/active speakers with a Helix today

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  • John_AJohn_A Frets: 3775

    @bloodandtears I had (still have) the TS110a certainly loud enough to rehears or as a monitor on stage with a (loud) real drummer, but not as much oomh as the Yamaha by a long way. 


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  • Cheers.. I'll probably start with a TS110a then...
    My trading feedback

    is it crazy how saying sentences backwards creates backwards sentences saying how crazy it is?

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  • TimmyOTimmyO Frets: 7349
    The Yamaha DBR range is their more pocket friendly version of the DXR - worth trying too if you can. 
    Red ones are better. 
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  • John_AJohn_A Frets: 3775
    Cheers.. I'll probably start with a TS110a then...

    If you want a used one give me a shout
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  • WazmeisterWazmeister Frets: 9443
    A very interesting and timely review from Tim...

    I was heart set on a L6 L2T but Tim's leaning towards the DXR10 (like many in the Kemper forum) has swayed me a wee bit ! The weight issue is certainly fabourable...

    Tim, did you try the 'elec guitar' settng on the L2T ?
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  • KebabkidKebabkid Frets: 3301
    Thanks for the review and the DXRs are coming out as a fave with these units.

    So basically, to get a live, stereo Kemper rig up and running, (powered rack version, their foot controller and a couple of DXRs) you need about £3k but may never look at another amp again.

    Does the Kemper take pedals well should you want to introduce your own wah, OD or delay?
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  • BeexterBeexter Frets: 597
    Kebabkid said:
    Thanks for the review and the DXRs are coming out as a fave with these units.

    So basically, to get a live, stereo Kemper rig up and running, (powered rack version, their foot controller and a couple of DXRs) you need about £3k but may never look at another amp again.

    Does the Kemper take pedals well should you want to introduce your own wah, OD or delay?
    Not sure you'd need the powered Kemper if you were going for DXR's as they have their own amps built in - the unpowered version would be fine with this set up, unless of course, you wanted to run through a traditional cab instead.
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11410
    @John_A ; which Alto did you have??

    @Beexter did you find the Alto TS110a loud enough on stage/rehearsal with a real drummer??

    I'm looking to try FRFR with my HD500X but not on the £500+ budget of the Yamaha stuff right now...
    Other option is the EV ZLX12P.  It can be had for a bit over £300 new.
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  • crunchman said:
    @John_A ; which Alto did you have??

    @Beexter did you find the Alto TS110a loud enough on stage/rehearsal with a real drummer??

    I'm looking to try FRFR with my HD500X but not on the £500+ budget of the Yamaha stuff right now...
    Other option is the EV ZLX12P.  It can be had for a bit over £300 new.
    true..
    My trading feedback

    is it crazy how saying sentences backwards creates backwards sentences saying how crazy it is?

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  • NelsonPNelsonP Frets: 3347
    edited March 2017
    crunchman said:
    @John_A ;; which Alto did you have??

    @Beexter did you find the Alto TS110a loud enough on stage/rehearsal with a real drummer??

    I'm looking to try FRFR with my HD500X but not on the £500+ budget of the Yamaha stuff right now...
    Other option is the EV ZLX12P.  It can be had for a bit over £300 new.
    true..
    Too much choice!

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  • KebabkidKebabkid Frets: 3301
    edited March 2017
    Thanks Beexter and do we know if there's any difference in response or sound using the non-powered Kemper with the DXRs i.e. would one be losing out by not using the proprietary power amp?

    Anyone here used the Kemper with Behringer Euros (450w powered speakers) or an equivalent which falls into the cheaper bracket of speaker? I have 2 of those as part of PA and they're decent sounding and I preferred them to Mackies, but I just wondered.
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  • Drew_TNBDDrew_TNBD Frets: 22445
    edited March 2017
    So honestly guys....

    Modeller + powered monitor ... versus amp + traditional 4x12 cab....

    Which sounds better? Personally I struggle to believe that a powered monitor running impulses will sound as good as a 4x12 cab with v30's in it. But I have zero experience to base that on, so it's entirely prejudice! Although even @clarky prefers 4x12 cabs as I recall!

    Anyone playing my kind of music with this stuff? IE: Metal or hard-rock...
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  • TTBZTTBZ Frets: 2873
    Drew_TNBD said:
    Anyone playing my kind of music with this stuff? IE: Metal or hard-rock...
    This is what I'm wondering as well. This sort of thing seems perfect for covers/function bands, playing at home and recording etc but I was wondering how it would compare to a real amp and cab in a loud hard rock band, especially when I'm the only guitarist so need a big heavy sound. 
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  • revsorgrevsorg Frets: 874
    Phil X describes my feelings about plugging in to an amp perfectly 
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  • I'm not sure you can replace a 4x12 with a single FRFR speaker and have it be as satisfying for metal. 

    But I think Devin Townsend was running a digital rig when I saw him (I'm sure I saw a Kemper in a rack behind a screen) and it sounded amazing through the PA.

    So my guess is you need more speakers and power... so likely an expensive solution vs how cheap used 4x12s are these these days.


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  • SporkySporky Frets: 27568
    Drew_TNBD said:
    Personally I struggle to believe that a powered monitor running impulses will sound as good as a 4x12 cab with v30's in it.
    Always tricky to answer "better".

    My suspicion is that if you went FRFR you'd miss the trouser-flapping effect of a big cab at volume. Maybe if you had something with a 15" driver? I'm generally of the view that if you've got something that works for you and it's luggable enough then you're fine.
    "[Sporky] brings a certain vibe and dignity to the forum."
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  • Drew_TNBDDrew_TNBD Frets: 22445
    Yeah, trouser flap is a big thing for me.
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  • John_AJohn_A Frets: 3775

    'better' depends on how you use it.   I Play pretty small pub gigs and from the audience perspective the FRFR approach definitely sounds better, on stage it also sounds better as I can hear everything not just me. It's not the same as 20 years ago when I ran a 100w head and 2 4x12s, but back then for bigger gigs, I normally turned down and had guitar coming back through the monitors, so the end result was pretty similar.




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  • TimmyOTimmyO Frets: 7349
    Yes I think if my main or only measure was which sounds out and out best, I'd be using amps and pedals. 

    The current generation of modellers, and the options available to amplify them (both as backline and FOH) are now good enough that having the inherent benefits of them (flexibility, experimentation, less physical stuff to move around, ease of recording etc etc) don't feel like they come with such a big compromise. 

    Session guys, touring hired hands and west end musical players are all using them with confidence.

    I'd never suggest anyone *should* go this route but I think more people now *can*.

    If you're going to miss that visceral something of the volume, particular feel and (often beneficial) limitations of the real thing, then currently the tried and tested tools will still be the better option.

    I just love where it's all got to - so many great choices. 


    Red ones are better. 
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 27568
    Drew_TNBD said:
    Yeah, trouser flap is a big thing for me.
    There's no replacement for displacement.
    "[Sporky] brings a certain vibe and dignity to the forum."
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