What have I done? Guitar sounds awful..

robgilmo

So I had a local tech lower the nut height, I collected it yesterday evening but didn't get a chance to play it when I got home.
Tonight I lowered the action slightly at the bridge.


There is no buzzing, it feels nice to play, but through the amp it just sounds awful, its hard to describe but it sounds muddy, echoing kind of sound. On the clean channel on the amp its not too bad but the slightest little but of distortion on the other channel and it sounds very wrong.


Ive noticed that the saddles on the high E and B strings are sitting really very low and don't exactly follow the same curvature or radius as the rest, could that be the problem?


Ive had a play with the pick up height and it seems to make no difference. Its a Squier tele standard.


Ill have another play with the action of the E and B strings and see if that changes anything.


Any ideas ?

robgilmo

Just to add, the intonation is fine.

steamabacus

Are you absolutely sure it's the guitar and not the amp (or cable, etc) that has developed a fault?

robgilmo

Ill try a different amp and a different guitar in this amp.

professorben

robgilmo said:

So I had a local tech lower the nut height, I collected it yesterday evening but didn't get a chance to play it when I got home.
Tonight I lowered the action slightly at the bridge.


There is no buzzing, it feels nice to play, but through the amp it just sounds awful, its hard to describe but it sounds muddy, echoing kind of sound. On the clean channel on the amp its not too bad but the slightest little but of distortion on the other channel and it sounds very wrong.


Ive noticed that the saddles on the high E and B strings are sitting really very low and don't exactly follow the same curvature or radius as the rest, could that be the problem?


Ive had a play with the pick up height and it seems to make no difference. Its a Squier tele standard.


Ill have another play with the action of the E and B strings and see if that changes anything.


Any ideas ?

There's your issue.

UnclePsychosis

Stupid question: are both the volume and tone controls turned up and working correctly? I once spent 20 minutes debugging my amp and pedals and realised I'd turned the volume on my guitar down without realising... 

Maynehead

Does it sound wrong acoustically? If the nut was not cut correctly you may get a sitar like sound when you play the string.

Nick

Could you get a video of the setup and resulting sound?

robgilmo

There is a sitar kind of twang from it acoustically, Ive found though that it wont tune correctly, that's the issue, I think the strings are being pinched at the nut, so I turn the tuning peg and nothing happens, turn it a bit more and it slips through the nut as the tension between nut and tuning peg grows, so then I'm a little sharp. Ill try some mineral oil on the nut and see if that helps, I have 3 in 1 and also some clock oil so one of them will hopefully lube the nut up a little.
I can hear the high e string twang as I tune it.

Brize

robgilmo said:

I can hear the high e string twang as I tune it.

Did the tech replace the nut or just take it off and file it down?

Bridgehouse

robgilmo said:

There is a sitar kind of twang from it acoustically, Ive found though that it wont tune correctly, that's the issue, I think the strings are being pinched at the nut, so I turn the tuning peg and nothing happens, turn it a bit more and it slips through the nut as the tension between nut and tuning peg grows, so then I'm a little sharp. Ill try some mineral oil on the nut and see if that helps, I have 3 in 1 and also some clock oil so one of them will hopefully lube the nut up a little.
I can hear the high e string twang as I tune it.

Scape some pencil into the nut rather than oil - a nice dry graphite lube. If you use a scalpel blade and shave some powder in, put the string in, tune up and down a bit then wipe off excess graphite.

robgilmo

It was left on the guitar and he filed down each individual groove, he went too deep on the high E and I left it with him so he could put some resin in there to bring the string back up. Looking closely at the nut I can see some swarf left over where the string enters the groove on every string, I might take the strings off the nut and clean that up. 

Bridgehouse

robgilmo said:

It was left on the guitar and he filed down each individual groove, he went too deep on the high E and I left it with him so he could put some resin in there to bring the string back up. Looking closely at the nut I can see some swarf left over where the string enters the groove on every string, I might take the strings off the nut and clean that up. 

And you paid this guy, right?

robgilmo

Ill do that, Ill put some graphite in there and clean up the swarf.

Bridgehouse

robgilmo said:

Ill do that, Ill put some graphite in there and clean up the swarf.

I've found graphite to be really effective at getting rid of any drag in a nut slot. Your tech should have ensured they were smooth and lubed anyway tho..

Brize

robgilmo said:

It was left on the guitar and he filed down each individual groove

You wanted to lower the action at the nut and he thought the best way to achieve that would be to file down each nut slot?

Maynehead

robgilmo said:

There is a sitar kind of twang from it acoustically, Ive found though that it wont tune correctly, that's the issue, I think the strings are being pinched at the nut, so I turn the tuning peg and nothing happens, turn it a bit more and it slips through the nut as the tension between nut and tuning peg grows, so then I'm a little sharp. Ill try some mineral oil on the nut and see if that helps, I have 3 in 1 and also some clock oil so one of them will hopefully lube the nut up a little.
I can hear the high e string twang as I tune it.

Sounds like the nut hasn't been cut properly. The pinching is caused by the bottom of the slot being a V shape instead of a U shape, but the sitar like twang is usually because the nut slot is not angled correctly. It should pitch up slightly towards the first fret, so that there's a sharp break as the string runs out of the nut slot. If the break is not sharp then that could cause the twang.

There's a chance that just rounding off the bottom of the slots will fix both problems, otherwise it's a lot of work if you don't have the right tools.

If you just want to round the slots, you can buy some cheap "nut slot files" off ebay. They're not actually nut slot files, but are used to clean welding tips. They will do the job of rounding the bottom of the slots nicely though. Just don't expect them to actually cut new slots.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Guitar-Nut-Slotting-File-Saw-Rods-Slot-Filing-Set-Luthier-Replacement-Tool-/332137908944?hash=item4d54f64ad0:g:3ksAAOSwWxNYsPpe

robgilmo

Bridgehouse said:

robgilmo said:

It was left on the guitar and he filed down each individual groove, he went too deep on the high E and I left it with him so he could put some resin in there to bring the string back up. Looking closely at the nut I can see some swarf left over where the string enters the groove on every string, I might take the strings off the nut and clean that up. 

And you paid this guy, right?

Yeah man, he charged me a tenner.
What I'm thinking is just to put a new nut on there myself, I made a thread in the modding section about pre cut bone nuts. It seems easy enough and I know someone who might give me some files on loan.
I always thought when you cut a nut groove you followed the angle that the string takes from the nut to the tuning peg, is that the case?

Bridgehouse

robgilmo said:

Bridgehouse said:

robgilmo said:

It was left on the guitar and he filed down each individual groove, he went too deep on the high E and I left it with him so he could put some resin in there to bring the string back up. Looking closely at the nut I can see some swarf left over where the string enters the groove on every string, I might take the strings off the nut and clean that up. 

And you paid this guy, right?

Yeah man, he charged me a tenner.
What I'm thinking is just to put a new nut on there myself, I made a thread in the modding section about pre cut bone nuts. It seems easy enough and I know someone who might give me some files on loan.
I always thought when you cut a nut groove you followed the angle that the string takes from the nut to the tuning peg, is that the case?

Yep just like @Maynehead said. My question was to clarify it was a paid tech and not a 'mate' doing you a favour with the wrong tools and no clue..

robgilmo

No the guy who did it has been doing it for years and seemed like he knew what he was doing, I went through it with him, taking a little out then retuning and I would have a play with it until we got the height right, we did this for every string.
He did say the nut was made from very soft plastic or cheese even.
Ive just put some graphite on there and the tuning is much  more stable now, no twanging from the high E string.
There is a little sitar sound from the G and B string but its hardly noticeable unless I pluck it quite hard.  

Bridgehouse

robgilmo said:

No the guy who did it has been doing it for years and seemed like he knew what he was doing, I went through it with him, taking a little out then retuning and I would have a play with it until we got the height right, we did this for every string.
He did say the nut was made from very soft plastic or cheese even.
Ive just put some graphite on there and the tuning is much  more stable now, no twanging from the high E string.
There is a little sitar sound from the G and B string but its hardly noticeable unless I pluck it quite hard.  

Have you popped some graphite in all the slots?

What sort of saddles are they - the standard squier tele ones with the slots? Might be worth checking there's no crap in them and that the strings are sitting in the slots nicely.

Does the sitar sound go away if you raise the G + B saddles slightly?