12 string hankering

Bridgehouse

Yes, yes I know - "you play bass now, bugger off with ya!"

Well that may be true. But I still write songs, and play acoustic a lot. 

I think I would like a 12 string. Not sure why, but I just seem to like the idea. 

What would you recommend in the twice-the-usual-strings stakes?

mart

Have you thought of just buying a 12-string bass?

Seriously though, a 12-string guitar is a thing of beauty and wonder. Just do it. Guilds are supposed to be great. I've got a Martin DM, and after the action was fettled it plays and sounds like a dream.

Bridgehouse

I've played a Guild 6 string and loved it. Are there any good non-dreadnought sized 12 strings out there?

richardhomer

Used 70s Guild would be the 'classic' option - not local to you but Frailers in Runcorn often seen to have this kind of thing in stock. They had a (smallish) jumbo style one a while ago that sounded fantastic - I'm not a Guild expert, so I can't remember the model number - but it was a lovely guitar.

stimpsonslostson

A Vintage Brett 12 string is an excellent choice. Small bodied, easy to play & great sounding either as an acoustic or plugged in. 
(The Giltrap signature one is excellent too). 

Bridgehouse

Thanks for the heads up. Good options to sniff out there.

I am also tempted by Yamahas offerings. Now if they did a 12 string version of their transacoustic...!

Winny_Pooh

You have money... buy a Lowden

Bridgehouse

Winny_Pooh said:

You have money... buy a Lowden

Lol. I had money - The big bucks have gone into the 64p

TheBigDipper

stimpsonslostson said:

A Vintage Brett 12 string is an excellent choice. Small bodied, easy to play & great sounding either as an acoustic or plugged in. 
(The Giltrap signature one is excellent too). 

I played the GG Vintage when I was looking for an acoustic 12. Liked it a lot. Also liked a Guild I tried. Ended up buying a Furch/Stonebridge. 

kt66

I have a Sigma DM12-4 that I bought in 1989 new, Korean, still found fabulous and plays like a dream. If you have the cash 
Guild are the way to go. 

Bridgehouse

I shall be keeping my eye on the classifieds!

I do like the look of the Guilds - are there any issues to look out for on the older ones?

Either that or I might go left field and look for an old Ovation

AliGorie

depends what ya want it for Brigie, most are for lecture players - strumming etc, I only fingerpick so the choice is VERY  limited - it's because of the string spacing @ the bridge - needs to be wide enough to get yer finger ends / nails in-between the string pairs - AISaid very few are suitable for this.
Other than that - as others have said the Vintage Brett + Giltrap offer great value for what they are.

Bridgehouse

Thanks @Aligorie - I have no doubt that this will be a strummer - song writing and messing about. I like fingerpicking 6 string - but having spent a lot of years on mandolin, it would be nice to get some of that tone. 

richardhomer

Bridgehouse said:

Either that or I might go left field and look for an old Ovation

I have a real affection for 70s Ovations.

I recently played a couple of old 12 strings at Frailers - one of which was the 'posh' Custom Legend.

They sounded (I regret to say) absolutely dreadful....

Bridgehouse

richardhomer said:

Bridgehouse said:

Either that or I might go left field and look for an old Ovation

I have a real affection for 70s Ovations.

I recently played a couple of old 12 strings at Frailers - one of which was the 'posh' Custom Legend.

They sounded (I regret to say) absolutely dreadful....

That's my worry - and let's face it, acoustic pickup technology has moved on!

richardhomer

Bridgehouse said:That's my worry - and let's face it, acoustic pickup technology has moved on!

I'm not talking plugged in - the acoustic tone was awful....

Bridgehouse

richardhomer said:

Bridgehouse said:That's my worry - and let's face it, acoustic pickup technology has moved on!

I'm not talking plugged in - the acoustic tone was awful....

Guild it is then...

Nitefly

I'm currently looking after a 12-string dread for a mate who's gone off working in the Middle East.  It's a Simon & Patrick Cedar 12 (solid cedar top, and (AFAIK) cherry back and sides).

When he left it with me he said "It might want some new strings..."

He wasn't wrong - they were disgusting, black and rusty, so it sounded horrible, as you might imagine.

Now, back when Adam was a lad and I was learning about this stuff, the only way to get a 12-string playable was to put light strings on it, tune it to D instead of E, and put a capo on the 2nd fret.

So that's what I did - cleaned it up, ran a drop of walnut oil into the fingerboard, and put some 10's on.  And it still sounded horrible!  All crashy and too much jangle...

I ended up taking the capo off and tuning it up to E, (praying that the high G wouldn't snap!), and now it sounds ten times better.  It's much clearer and more articulate (although it's certainly no Guild).

The current range is the "Woodland" - I googled and found a new one for £599, but I bet you could get a 2nd hand one for a good deal less.

ICBM

Nitefly said:

Now, back when Adam was a lad and I was learning about this stuff, the only way to get a 12-string playable was to put light strings on it, tune it to D instead of E, and put a capo on the 2nd fret.

So that's what I did - cleaned it up, ran a drop of walnut oil into the fingerboard, and put some 10's on.  And it still sounded horrible!  All crashy and too much jangle...

I ended up taking the capo off and tuning it up to E, (praying that the high G wouldn't snap!), and now it sounds ten times better.  It's much clearer and more articulate (although it's certainly no Guild).

Yes - because in the old days 'light' meant 11s, which on a 12-string especially are a *lot* heavier than 10s despite only being "one more" . Tension is proportional to the square of the string gauge for a given frequency, so it makes a lot of difference - and twice as much on a 12-string.

So generally you want to tune a 12-string to D with 11s, and E with 10s. D with 11s sounds immense, but too loose and trashy with 10s exactly as you found. E with 11s will be extremely hard to play - roughly equivalent tension to 15s on a 6-string guitar - and may damage the top or the neck.

AliGorie

I put a utube link here somewhere of me playing a 12’er - I have always tuned a 12’er a tone below using 13 - 56 you get a full sound and some compensation for the reduced tension - easier on the  l/h hand
That said I play solo and don’t have to be concerned about matching pitch with others, if you play by yourself I’d recommend it.

Javabean

I have a nice Faith Saturn HiGloss 12 String up here on this board , if you still have a hankering.