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Digital mixing desks

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  • Cheers @Danny1969 will have a look don't know the firmware version just picked it up on thursday nigth and got on with it, if the pads are only on the Ipad app that is a real pain!
    www.maltingsaudio.co.uk
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357
    So Friday night we were using a Mackie DL1608, FOH engineer was a guy we've used loads of times before, very experienced and good. Soundcheck went great, IEM mixes all set up and then 2 minutes to show time the DL1608 AP had a fit and wiped the active current mix .... reloading the stored mix didn't work as it had overwritten that. Bollocks !!   ..... so he got out his own iPad which had some show files from another venue with the us and as soon as his iPad sync'ed to the desk it zero'ed everything and overwrote that as well.  So the poor FOH guy has got to start from scratch and get a workable FOH mix and IEM mixs  in five minutes on a touchscreen that onlys shows 8 faders at a time!

    This is a danger with surface-less mixers .... thank god the gains are analog otherwise we really would have been fecked  


    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • robinbowesrobinbowes Frets: 3021
    Interesting failure modes there. Have you had a think about how you might have been able to recover the mix, if at all?

    R.
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  • You see this is the issue I have with surface less mixers, in my mind a step too far. Digital very happy with did a gig last nigth on a Soundcraft expression hadn't been back to this venue for 6 months but just took my usb drive which had my last settings I used there on it recalled the show and up and running,. Wifi will, in my mind and experience, be less than rock solid all the time so faders and knobs are a must in my book
    www.maltingsaudio.co.uk
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  • PS @Danny1969 ;   re the QU16 getting usable work rounds, updated the firmware from 7 to latest, keep having to remind myself its a cheap digital desk, and the other problem I've found with it is getting USB sticks which are compatible.. nightmare!  
    www.maltingsaudio.co.uk
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  • John_PJohn_P Frets: 2744
    I'm thinking about buying a digital desk this week, so I'd appreciate any input.      

    Looking at the features I'm tempted by the Behringer X18,   compared to the mackie it is has built in wifi connection and multitrack recording.    The XR18 could go in a rack and has more xlr outs but rather than live in the amp rack I can use the desk format with multiple bands and I can live with jack sends to monitors and iems so the X18 might work better. The sound craft ui16 only has 12inputs and there will be times that I want a couple more.  
    I'm a bit wary of buying behringer so long term use reports would much appreciated.
    or is there another product with iPad control, 16 inputs and easy multitrack recording?
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357
    John

    The Allen and Heath QU-SB has 

    • Qu-Pad iPad App for all live mixing controls
    • 16 Mono Inputs (TRS + XLR)
    • 1 Stereo Input (TRS)
    • 12 on-board Mix Outputs
    • 1 Stereo Matrix Out
    • Expandable up to 32 Mono + 3 Stereo channels
    • Up to 11 Monitor Mixes (4 mono + 7 stereo)
    • Qu-Drive direct Multitrack Recording to USB
    • 19” Rack mount option
    Bit more money than the Behringer though

    PS : a built in router isn't always good as your better off getting the router above the crowd when mixing with an iPad ... I normally put mine on the FOH stack. 
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • John_PJohn_P Frets: 2744
    Thanks Danny - I've just been sat comparing the specs,  and ideally I'd go with the AH with the behringer at around £450 I'm debating if the extra features on the AH are worth another £400 -   in the analogue world it would be easy to justify the extra but I'm assuming that with no moving parts the behringer is pretty reliable.
    Post taken about the built in wifi,   I assume if connection is lost it just tries to reconnect in the background and the audio continues but I figure I could add an external router fairly cheaply if they make a noticeable difference.  
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357
    Yeah audio continues while it reconnects but obviously while it does you have no control at all .... which is why I don't like any surfaceless desk really. 
    I've used Behringers X32 and that seems fine but never used an X18 .....  I'm recommending the QU stuff because I've used it since it was first released a few years ago and it's been rock solid. It wouldn't be the end of the world though if you brought the X18 and didn't like it, you could always flog it on without losing a lot
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • we have a behringer XR16 which we will be trying out in practice for the first time on monday, so will let you know how we find it.
    ဈǝᴉʇsɐoʇǝsǝǝɥɔဪቌ
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  • simonksimonk Frets: 1467
    Still loving our XR18 - superb bit of kit!
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  • we have a behringer XR16 which we will be trying out in practice for the first time on monday, so will let you know how we find it.
    Me too, exactly the same situation, trying it out at rehearsal on Monday...
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  • andyozandyoz Frets: 718
    edited November 2016
    I've just got a AH QU-SB.  Early impressions are very good.  Feels very well built/premium in the flesh - it's made in China but obviously from the iPhone type of quality factory and not the other side of the China fence.  Sounds very good, I'd say warm if that makes sense!

    One issue to bear in mind is the AH doesn't directly support Android App and the 3rd party one isn't as full featured as the iPad app (can't access the iLive fx modules like reverb for example).

    The Behringer XR18 has fully supported Android and iPad apps and can also be controlled via laptop.  Also has built-in wifi but I think that if you really want to roam around the room and get a good distance away people seem to be connecting stronger wifi gear.  Not an issue if it's a band that just wants to largely set and forget.

    The XR18 looks amazing value for money - I just preferred the full rack unit width of the QU-SB.  The XR18 has 3 year warranty and the AH only has 1yr (I bought thru Thomann so hope they are good for their 3yr promise if I need it)

    The AH does have a footswitch input which I think was clever, you can assign two switches to any parameter - mute all would be a good idea and maybe the second on a mic you're worried about going into feedback.  It gives the band back some immediate physical control. 

    One thing I like about these types of mixers is there is more flexibility in locating it on stage for say a typical 4 piece pub band.  You can find a spot that minimises/clean-up cable runs and as you don't need to fiddle with it so it can be down on the floor.  Neither the AH or XR18 has locking input connectors (output are locking) which I don't understand at all?  The whole point is these go out of sight but you can still pull cable by accident on a stage and not notice as fast as with a traditional desk

    I think they are the future for simple mixing tasks as the display tech of tablets is just going to get better.

    The AH has the full core of the QU 32 by the way.  Amazing and shows how much money is saved by stripping away the control surface.

    The AR18 includes rack mount ears, for the AH they cost a good bit extra

    If you want to dip your foot into the water, buy the XR18 is my advice.  Behringer have really turned things around lately (the Midas buyout etc. really showed their intent).  A that price, and say you only get 3-4 years out of it costs you half a gig fee a year.  The control it gives is amazing.  Stuff like shelf filtering, para EQ, high end fx modules would have cost 10 times as much 20 years ago in real terms.  Just make sure you have a cheapo 8 track analogue mixer as backup if it completely goes pear shaped - but people forget that you really need that even with a traditional analogue mixers which can also fry a power supply, etc. at the wrong time.

    I noticed AH dropped the price of theirs recently (£1,050 down to £850) and bet it's because the XR18 is killing them a bit.

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  • andyozandyoz Frets: 718
    edited October 2016

    John_P said:
    I'm thinking about buying a digital desk this week, so I'd appreciate any input.      

    Looking at the features I'm tempted by the Behringer X18,   compared to the mackie it is has built in wifi connection and multitrack recording.    The XR18 could go in a rack and has more xlr outs but rather than live in the amp rack I can use the desk format with multiple bands and I can live with jack sends to monitors and iems so the X18 might work better. The sound craft ui16 only has 12inputs and there will be times that I want a couple more.  
    I'm a bit wary of buying behringer so long term use reports would much appreciated.
    or is there another product with iPad control, 16 inputs and easy multitrack recording?
    My reading of the current crop of mixers is the QU SB has the easy Multi-track recording integrated better if it's important to you.
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  • andyozandyoz Frets: 718
    edited October 2016
    John_P said:
    Thanks Danny - I've just been sat comparing the specs,  and ideally I'd go with the AH with the behringer at around £450 I'm debating if the extra features on the AH are worth another £400 -   in the analogue world it would be easy to justify the extra but I'm assuming that with no moving parts the behringer is pretty reliable.
    Post taken about the built in wifi,   I assume if connection is lost it just tries to reconnect in the background and the audio continues but I figure I could add an external router fairly cheaply if they make a noticeable difference.  
    With the XR18 you can directly connect a laptop via USB I think?  Maybe for the first few gigs have a small laptop ready as backup until you know how well wifi works for you're particular setup.

    I wish the QU-SB had that to be honest.
    I guess AH don't want the 'cheap' QU range having features veering into their core iLive product range?
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  • andyozandyoz Frets: 718
    edited October 2016
    John_P said:
    Thanks Danny - I've just been sat comparing the specs,  and ideally I'd go with the AH with the behringer at around £450 I'm debating if the extra features on the AH are worth another £400 -   in the analogue world it would be easy to justify the extra but I'm assuming that with no moving parts the behringer is pretty reliable.
    Post taken about the built in wifi,   I assume if connection is lost it just tries to reconnect in the background and the audio continues but I figure I could add an external router fairly cheaply if they make a noticeable difference.  
    @John_P When I first searched two weeks ago alot were still showing QU-SB at £1050 but it's been reduced to £850 at all retailers now.  Makes the decision a bit trickier hey with a £250 differential hey?
    If there was still £400 in it I would have bought the XR18.
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  • Xr16 is ace. Waiting on cables from Danny (which were on the doorstep when I got back from practice). But even sharing a single mix IEMs are ace.
    ဈǝᴉʇsɐoʇǝsǝǝɥɔဪቌ
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357
    andyoz said:
    John_P said:
    Thanks Danny - I've just been sat comparing the specs,  and ideally I'd go with the AH with the behringer at around £450 I'm debating if the extra features on the AH are worth another £400 -   in the analogue world it would be easy to justify the extra but I'm assuming that with no moving parts the behringer is pretty reliable.
    Post taken about the built in wifi,   I assume if connection is lost it just tries to reconnect in the background and the audio continues but I figure I could add an external router fairly cheaply if they make a noticeable difference.  
    With the XR18 you can directly connect a laptop via USB I think?  Maybe for the first few gigs have a small laptop ready as backup until you know how well wifi works for you're particular setup.

    I wish the QU-SB had that to be honest.
    I guess AH don't want the 'cheap' QU range having features veering into their core iLive product range?
    QU-SB has HUI drivers so yeah you can control it from any laptop running Reaper \ Cubase \ Logic etc
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • A bit of an aside, while the in ears were great, could here everything clearly i did think my guitar tone was a bit thin, which isnt surprising really given that im now getting the mic'ed sound right on the speaker rather than the room sound. Does any one have any tips for counteracting the effect of this a bit?

    Im looking to get my palm mutes nice and chunky again. Tried dialling back the treble / presence and upping the bass but still felt a little thin.

    I could totally live with it but figured others might have more experience in how to best acheive a good IEM (and by extension FOH) sound.


    ဈǝᴉʇsɐoʇǝsǝǝɥɔဪቌ
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  • andyozandyoz Frets: 718
    edited November 2016
    Danny1969 said:
    andyoz said:
    John_P said:
    Thanks Danny - I've just been sat comparing the specs,  and ideally I'd go with the AH with the behringer at around £450 I'm debating if the extra features on the AH are worth another £400 -   in the analogue world it would be easy to justify the extra but I'm assuming that with no moving parts the behringer is pretty reliable.
    Post taken about the built in wifi,   I assume if connection is lost it just tries to reconnect in the background and the audio continues but I figure I could add an external router fairly cheaply if they make a noticeable difference.  
    With the XR18 you can directly connect a laptop via USB I think?  Maybe for the first few gigs have a small laptop ready as backup until you know how well wifi works for you're particular setup.

    I wish the QU-SB had that to be honest.
    I guess AH don't want the 'cheap' QU range having features veering into their core iLive product range?
    QU-SB has HUI drivers so yeah you can control it from any laptop running Reaper \ Cubase \ Logic etc
    Interesting, how much control would that give you compared to the full iPad QU app?

    I guess you can do faders and basic EQ which would be enough to get you out of a bind if the wifi wouldn't co-operate at a gig.
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