Is an unlined Fretless difficult when mainly sticking to the lower register?

William Williamson · December 2016

I ask because I've had a few fours over the years and have come across a relatively good deal on an upgraded Yamaha BB5 with a replacement ebony fretless board and I'm really tempted. I understand the 'main' issue with fretless is intonation, especially when you get into the higher registers and especially when there are no fretlines. As this instrument will primarily be me-sodding-around-at-home and me-recording-low-register-basslines-for-my-tracks I don't see these as a big problem, but it's entirely possible I'm just being an idiot and infact it's still a problem.

As an aside, if anyone could advise if this Yamaha BBG5 (RBX375 pickups, ebony fretboard) or a Squier Deluxe Fretless 5 is a better shot then I would appreciate it.

Thanks,

octatonic · December 2016

How good is your ear?

fretmeister · December 2016

Lined and unlined have their own issues.

Unlined is a bit more tricky to start, but lined actually needs playing off the line a little. Some lined players intonate on the 7th fret rather than 12th. The higher you go, the more off line you need to be.

Ive got unlined and I have side dots at 3,5,7,9 etc.

But I've added another at the 1st fret as if I get something wrong it's that F!

proggy · December 2016

I don't find it that difficult, you can hear if you're slightly out, then it's just a matter of rolling your finger a bit to the left or right. You'll soon get used to it.

William Williamson · December 2016

I know my ear when it comes to being out of tune - I don't have perfect pitch, but certainly can tell when I'm out of tune. Unlined sounds very fun, but I'm a little worried that I'm going to be letting myself in for alot of pain - as a second instrument however, it's more of a vanity than a demand, especially when I can just sit in the first position and pump roots on my rock tracks

slacker · December 2016

I played an unlined 4 live for a few years. Some thoughts...

1 Play into a chromatic tuner for a while. This is frowned apon at Talkbass etc but IMHO it's a good initial ear trainer. Stop using it asap and get on with it. Which leads to...

2 get on with it. I'd had mine a fortnight when Mrs S said to me, you better use it out. So I took it and got through it somehow.

3 On the lower registers use muscle memory more than looking at the dots.

4 The notes bloom more on a fretless so use them.

5 Play a harmonic then fret it and slide it. People will think you are a real fretless player.

6 Dont listen to Jaco it's not good for the ego. I always liked Mik Kahn or that Graceland bloke.

fretmeister · December 2016

^ all of that.

William Williamson · December 2016

My tuner (polytune mini) doesn't appear to support going out to a cab at the same time but other comments seem they'll work well. Out of curiosity, I'm planning on using my Runt as a DI box, but for an amp/cab should I be looking at the newer Fender Rumbles? Size is a bit of a concern, realistically I'm hoping for something not much bigger than a 1x12 + lunchbox head size...

slacker · December 2016

I have the Markbass 1x12 combo. It's small, light. loud, sounds great, has a good DI feed but is quote expensive. I've used Rumbles as backline and they are ok but dont play a great amp as well.

You can go really silly on bass amps with EA EBS Glockenklang etc. I've owned and tried a lot of that in the past. The Markbass stuff tends to be more value IMHO.

William Williamson · December 2016

This one? https://www.thomann.de/gb/markbass_mini_cmd_121p_lm3.htm

mart · December 2016

I heard someone in a pub using a Rumble the other week and I was really impressed with the sound. Cheap as chips, too.

William Williamson · December 2016

^ I used one of the 'new' generation Rumble 100's at home and it was pretty awesome, but I decided that I was never gonna gig and so got shot of it - probably stupid in the long run.

This is a shot of the bass I'm hoping to collect on Friday:
https://twitter.com/WilliamAyerst/status/805096479056658434

Rocker · December 2016

Why make playing music any more difficult than it is by using a fretless bass?

William Williamson · December 2016

HA

Why make music more difficult than it is by using instruments instead of programming VSTs? Why make music at all and not just listen to it? Why listen to music instead of just sitting in a darkened room until you die?

Well, I've always wanted to try, for one - and I enjoy the sound i.e.:

mart · December 2016

Rocker said:

Why make playing music any more difficult than it is by using a fretless bass?

Personally I find fretless easier. The sounds I want to make, the smoothness, and the control of the timbre of each note, are easier on a fretless. Sure, someone like Palladino or Sklar* can play a fretted bass and get those sounds, but I find it much easier to do in a fretless.

And maybe that's why the vast majority of string players, across the world and for the last couple of hundred years, have played fretless instruments.

* Yes, I know Palladino and Sklar both often play fretless, but even when they play a fretted bass they can get the same smoothness and control. The bastards.

slacker · December 2016

William Williamson said:

This one? https://www.thomann.de/gb/markbass_mini_cmd_121p_lm3.htm

yes awesome amp I,'ve played various basses through it all controls flat except the filters which I have a 2 o clock.

Rocker · December 2016

Why the 'HA' @William Williamson, I only asked the question.....

And @Mart I know that string players use unfretted instruments. @Sporky from this parish plays the Cello. My brother-in-laws daugher is learning the violin. If the answer to 'why' is for the musical freedom playing a bass, that no frets grants you, then fine. Just say so.

I never heard of Palladino or Sklar. I tried looking them up but........ I presume they are bass players. Please suggest an album that they or one of them played on. Not a solo album*, they are usually shit, but an album of decent music that showcases their talents.

* My aversion to solo albums is mainly due to not liking the sound of most instruments when played solo. With the exception of piano, church organ, uilleann pipes and the occasional flamenco guitar, most solo instrumentals are more technique based than musical. Not casting aspersions on your musical choices, this is how I see/hear it.

mart · December 2016

I didn't say "musical freedom" because I recognise that what I can do on a fretless others can do with frets. It is simply that I find it easier to achieve that on a fretless, which is why I said it was easier.

To some extent I share your views about solo instruments. Apart from classical guitar there aren't many instruments I like the sound of on their own, and a solo album does tend to come across as a boast about technique rather than something designed to be listened to.

If you want to hear Lee Sklar at his best, then listen to him playing on an album you like. There's hundreds listed here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leland_Sklar#Selected_albums

And similarly for Pino Palladino: pick any of these:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pino_Palladino#Discography_.28selected.29

My personal favourites are his playing on Paul Young's No Parlez and Tears for Fears's The Seeds of Love, but you probably have other tastes. I'll be amazed if there aren't albums you know and love that feature one or the other of them.

William Williamson · December 2016

Rocker said:

Why the 'HA' @William Williamson, I only asked the question.....

The "HA!" was meant to soften my reply because I think desire/reason is quite a qualitative thing rather than something you can measure and quantify. I've always preferred flats on my basses (I say that as if I have years of experience and multiple instruments: but I switched a few years ago and was very satisfied), and the fretless instruments I've played were even more smooth and pleasant.

Having said that, the gentlemen who was due to sell me the instrument recorded a demo and wow, he's quite out of tune a few times. Hopefully I can focus myself to make it work.

Rocker · December 2016

Thanks guys for the replies. I will lookout for that music @mart.

fretmeister · December 2016

Rocker said:

Thanks guys for the replies. I will lookout for that music @mart.

When you look at the lists you will realise that you have already heard Palladino and Sklar.

Sklar has played on over 2000 albums.

Pino came to fame on Paul Young's "Wherever I lay my hat" tune. While these days it sounds a bit cliche, it was one of the first, if not the first pop tune to mix with the bass that far forward in the mix to make the first half of the tune a duet between vocal and bass.

He used a fretless stingray for that.

He famously thought the production guys were mad and that it would never sell with the bass that high. It sold by the truck load and his phone has been ringing since.

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Is an unlined Fretless difficult when mainly sticking to the lower register?

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