Obama, a great man

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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 24601
    edited January 2017
    Fretwired said:

    Every now and again someone comes along who could make a difference but they are stymied - that's Obama. He could have made a real difference to the USA but stood no chance. A shame he wasn't British. Just think what he could have achieved on this side of the pond.
    Alas, we got David Cameron.
    Yep. We needed an Obama and we got a twat from Eton. Obama could have avoided the Brexit bollocks and got the EU to look in the mirror and see that a change in direction could be positive. I think I'm right in thinking his father was British - maybe the Queen could knight him and invite him over to the UK to replace May.

    Remember, it's easier to criticise than create!
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  • mellowsunmellowsun Frets: 2422
    The sad fact is that people vote against their interests and to make themselves poorer.  We've seen that with the Brexit referendum and now the US election.

    For example, a large chunk of America for unfathomable reasons do not want affordable universal healthcare.
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  • Fretwired said:
    Fretwired said:

    Every now and again someone comes along who could make a difference but they are stymied - that's Obama. He could have made a real difference to the USA but stood no chance. A shame he wasn't British. Just think what he could have achieved on this side of the pond.
    Alas, we got David Cameron.
    Yep. We needed an Obama and we got a twat from Eton. Obama could have avoided the Brexit bollocks and got the EU to look in the mirror and see that a change in direction could be positive. I think I'm right in thinking his father was British - maybe the Queen could knight him and invite him over to the UK to replace May.
    His Father was Kenyan I believe, doesn't necessarily preclude British citizenship (see Chris Froome). Would rather depend on other circumstances though.

    Barack replacing May would be cool as fuck though :)
    littlegreenman < My tunes here...
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  • RaymondLinRaymondLin Frets: 11814
    When I watch Obama, I see a wise man with integrity and honour with good intentions.

    When I watch Trump, I see a liar whose pants are on fire.  Tremendous amount of fire, bigly.
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 24601
    edited January 2017
    Fretwired said:
    Fretwired said:

    Every now and again someone comes along who could make a difference but they are stymied - that's Obama. He could have made a real difference to the USA but stood no chance. A shame he wasn't British. Just think what he could have achieved on this side of the pond.
    Alas, we got David Cameron.
    Yep. We needed an Obama and we got a twat from Eton. Obama could have avoided the Brexit bollocks and got the EU to look in the mirror and see that a change in direction could be positive. I think I'm right in thinking his father was British - maybe the Queen could knight him and invite him over to the UK to replace May.
    His Father was Kenyan I believe, doesn't necessarily preclude British citizenship (see Chris Froome). Would rather depend on other circumstances though.

    Barack replacing May would be cool as fuck though
    He was born when the British Empire still existed so he was technically a British subject, although I think he remained or returned to Kenya after independence and became a Kenyan.

    Remember, it's easier to criticise than create!
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  • Fretwired said:
    Fretwired said:
    Fretwired said:

    Every now and again someone comes along who could make a difference but they are stymied - that's Obama. He could have made a real difference to the USA but stood no chance. A shame he wasn't British. Just think what he could have achieved on this side of the pond.
    Alas, we got David Cameron.
    Yep. We needed an Obama and we got a twat from Eton. Obama could have avoided the Brexit bollocks and got the EU to look in the mirror and see that a change in direction could be positive. I think I'm right in thinking his father was British - maybe the Queen could knight him and invite him over to the UK to replace May.
    His Father was Kenyan I believe, doesn't necessarily preclude British citizenship (see Chris Froome). Would rather depend on other circumstances though.

    Barack replacing May would be cool as fuck though
    He was born when the British Empire still existed so he was technically a British subject, although I think he remained or returned to Kenya after independence and became a Kenyan.
    In that case it depends on a) when he was born, and b) when Kenya gained independence, all relative to the British Nationality Act 1948, and subsequent amendment (81). Theoretically though...
    littlegreenman < My tunes here...
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71963
    Not another birth certificate argument, please... Trump has only just admitted he was wrong in the first one!

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • ClarkyClarky Frets: 3261
    edited January 2017
    octatonic said:
    I am going to miss the Obamas.
    Barack is an incredible orator- probably the best of modern times.
    Michelle's role cannot be forgotten either.
    Pure class.
    totally agree.. an amazing orator..
    funnily enough, this evening I was talking to wife and we concluded that Michelle is oozing class of the most natural kind
    the sort of class that no amount of money and walk into an expensive clothes shop and buy
    she just has it..

    was he a great president??
    not so sure.. good bits and bad bits…
    he could come across as being a bit fake at times..

    when he walks away, the people I really feel for are the Americans themselves..
    in a two way contest between Clinton and Trump there was never anyone credible to vote for..
    both are equally scary
    play every note as if it were your first
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  • DrJazzTapDrJazzTap Frets: 2158
    I would love to be a fly on the wall when Trump meets May. I bet that'll be awkward. 
    I would love to change my username, but I fully understand the T&C's (it was an old band nickname). So please feel free to call me Dave.
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  • p90foolp90fool Frets: 31371
    Obama has his critics, and so does the system which prevented him being a great president by getting his own way.

    We now have cause to thank that system though, it'll rein in Trump's worst excesses.

    You can't have it both ways unfortunately.
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  • fretmeisterfretmeister Frets: 23968
    mellowsun said:
    The sad fact is that people vote against their interests and to make themselves poorer.  We've seen that with the Brexit referendum and now the US election.

    For example, a large chunk of America for unfathomable reasons do not want affordable universal healthcare.
    They want the Affordable Care Act. They don't want Obamacare. (Yes, I know)




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  • ChalkyChalky Frets: 6807
    p90fool said:
    Obama has his critics, and so does the system which prevented him being a great president by getting his own way.

    We now have cause to thank that system though, it'll rein in Trump's worst excesses.

    You can't have it both ways unfortunately.
    Nice bit of wisdom - you can't have a dictator as President, even if you like him and his ideas.

    @heartfeltdawn - you know as well as I do that the one man who is President has the job of working with the hundreds of men and women who have been elected representatives for their patch of the US.  Saying those elected hundreds are wrong and one man is right is exactly what the American system is intended to prevent - that is why even some Democrats have been critical of his second term of resorting to the 'pen' without consultation.

    @mellowsun said "For example, a large chunk of America for unfathomable reasons do not want affordable universal healthcare.". Unfathomable? Because a couple of hundred Americans think different to you their reasoning is unfathomable?!


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  • EvilmagsEvilmags Frets: 5158
    Lagely a failure. A peace  nobel who dropped more bombs than his four previous processor. Hype and image over substance. And he handed all that power he grabbed to Trump...
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  • mgawmgaw Frets: 5239
    Evilmags said:
    Lagely a failure. A peace  nobel who dropped more bombs than his four previous processor. Hype and image over substance. And he handed all that power he grabbed to Trump...
    couldn't agree more,
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  • BidleyBidley Frets: 2913
    I like him, and I could listen to him speak. I think what failings he's had will be obscured by Trump's reign, particularly as people seem to be overjoyed at how terrible he's doing so far.
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  • MotorhateMotorhate Frets: 238
    Evilmags said:
    Lagely a failure. A peace  nobel who dropped more bombs than his four previous processor. Hype and image over substance. And he handed all that power he grabbed to Trump...
    I tend to agree. He's not very popular in the USA for various reasons among large swathes of the population and is partly the reason that Trump got into power. His office handled the Syria and Libya debacles terribly and managed to strain relations with Russia to a new low in the process. Was advocating the overthrow of democratically elected governments and cried foul when reports came in of supposed "Russian hacking". Interfered in the EU referendum in this country too, because of course he knows what's best for all of us, and almost blackmailed the population to vote "Remain" with the threat we'd be at the back of the queue for any trade deals, like we'd be punished if we didn't do what he said.
    Charismatic and an elequant speaker yes but a good statesman and president? Not by a long chalk IMO.
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 24601
    ICBM said:
    Not another birth certificate argument, please... Trump has only just admitted he was wrong in the first one!
    It's not - the idiots in the US were trying to block him from becoming president. UK rules are totally different - in any case you don't have to be British to be PM.

    Remember, it's easier to criticise than create!
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  • Chalky said:

    @heartfeltdawn - you know as well as I do that the one man who is President has the job of working with the hundreds of men and women who have been elected representatives for their patch of the US.  Saying those elected hundreds are wrong and one man is right is exactly what the American system is intended to prevent - that is why even some Democrats have been critical of his second term of resorting to the 'pen' without consultation.
    That is what the system is meant to prevent. But that system also chronically hamstrung a man who won the election and popular vote. It's also the same system that ended up shutting down the federal government in 2013 thanks to Republican intransigence, a fact so undeniable that even Fox News polls blamed Republicans more than Obama. 

    And yes, hundreds can be wrong. Some of those elected hundreds are wrong in exactly the same way that I would say that MPs who voted for war in Iraq based on subservient bowing to party Whips rather than moral decision making were wrong. Allegiance to party policy above moral and ethical consideration can be dreadfully wrong.

    I don't consider Obama to be a great leader but that is true of the majority of leaders out there right now. We don't have great leaders about and the idea of a solitary individual being able to revitalise everything is bunkum. Obama came in at an incredibly difficult time: terrorism and financial collapse and a lot of internal pressures societally. It is unlikely that McCain or Romney would have done any better. 



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  • Motorhate said:
    Evilmags said:
    Lagely a failure. A peace  nobel who dropped more bombs than his four previous processor. Hype and image over substance. And he handed all that power he grabbed to Trump...
    I tend to agree. He's not very popular in the USA for various reasons among large swathes of the population and is partly the reason that Trump got into power. His office handled the Syria and Libya debacles terribly and managed to strain relations with Russia to a new low in the process. Was advocating the overthrow of democratically elected governments and cried foul when reports came in of supposed "Russian hacking". Interfered in the EU referendum in this country too, because of course he knows what's best for all of us, and almost blackmailed the population to vote "Remain" with the threat we'd be at the back of the queue for any trade deals, like we'd be punished if we didn't do what he said.
    Charismatic and an elequant speaker yes but a good statesman and president? Not by a long chalk IMO.

     I presume that you dislike foreign bodies getting involved in foreign elections and therefore damn Nigel Farage for his regular appearances with Donald Trump then. 



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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71963
    Fretwired said:
    ICBM said:
    Not another birth certificate argument, please... Trump has only just admitted he was wrong in the first one!
    It's not - the idiots in the US were trying to block him from becoming president. UK rules are totally different - in any case you don't have to be British to be PM.
    Sorry, I missed off the joke smiley ;).

    I agree that Obama has been a mixed success. His ideals ran ahead of the realities of what he ended up doing, both because he promised too much, and because others actively tried to frustrate him for no good reason. He also left some of the key foreign policy decisions to those who may not have been the right choices (yes, I do mean Hillary among others) and failed to take really decisive action when he could have on others.

    On balance I'd give him a positive report, but not quite as good a President as he should and possibly could have been.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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