Band Advice drugs.......

Danny1969 · March 2017

It's not the substance that tends to be the problem, whever that be gear or alcohol but it's the takers awareness and ability to function on it. I work with a lot of big drinkers on the circuit and it's not really a problem, they can still play fine. Same with the big dope heads, they smoke so much they function fine on it.
I tend to find the biggest problems performance wise are with people who don't normally drink or smoke deciding to have a drink or smoke and they simply aren't used to it and then their playing goes to pot

octatonic · March 2017

Danny1969 said:

It's not the substance that tends to be the problem, whever that be gear or alcohol but it's the takers awareness and ability to function on it. I work with a lot of big drinkers on the circuit and it's not really a problem, they can still play fine. Same with the big dope heads, they smoke so much they function fine on it.
I tend to find the biggest problems performance wise are with people who don't normally drink or smoke deciding to have a drink or smoke and they simply aren't used to it and then their playing goes to pot

Agree 100%.

RocknRollDave · March 2017

professorben said:

RocknRollDave said:

professorben said:

gusman2x said:

Doubt you're at any real risk because they smoke. If you have a real hard principaled objection to weed (and it's totally fine if you do), or the social aspect is getting you down, then fair enough. Otherwise, I'd just get on with it. If you like the music, their company, then weed aint the worst of it.
If them being pot heads starts to manifest in other ways (not responding to texts, missing practices, being moaney), then they'll be just like every other bandmate ever lol.

Well, it cost me two teeth and a load of stitches last time I was mates with weed smokers.

If you'd been beaten up by a drunk, would you refuse to work with people who drink alcohol?

I'd refuse to work with someone who buys alcohol illegally after getting beaten up by a black-market booze seller they tried to buy it from, if that's what you mean then yes.

Not really what I am saying - After all there is no legal market for recreational drug use in this country and no need for black market booze, so it is not a helpful comparison, IMO.
My points were:
(a) None of your band members are the person who attacked you.
(b) Weed is not known to be a generally "violent" drug.
and ergo (c) For all the other concerns about the drug use (reliabilty, productiveness, quality of their performances etc), it is unlikely to the point of negligibility that your band mates will attack you as a result of their drug use.

That doesn't mean to say you should be OK with it, or that you shouldn't say anything or do anything about it, I just don't think it is fair to project your previous horrific experience onto your bandmates.

Sounds cold when typed in black and white, but it isn't meant to be. I totally get why the idea of weed smoking would be a concern

professorben · March 2017

RocknRollDave said:

professorben said:

RocknRollDave said:

professorben said:

gusman2x said:

Doubt you're at any real risk because they smoke. If you have a real hard principaled objection to weed (and it's totally fine if you do), or the social aspect is getting you down, then fair enough. Otherwise, I'd just get on with it. If you like the music, their company, then weed aint the worst of it.
If them being pot heads starts to manifest in other ways (not responding to texts, missing practices, being moaney), then they'll be just like every other bandmate ever lol.

Well, it cost me two teeth and a load of stitches last time I was mates with weed smokers.

If you'd been beaten up by a drunk, would you refuse to work with people who drink alcohol?

I'd refuse to work with someone who buys alcohol illegally after getting beaten up by a black-market booze seller they tried to buy it from, if that's what you mean then yes.

Not really what I am saying - After all there is no legal market for recreational drug use in this country and no need for black market booze, so it is not a helpful comparison, IMO.
My points were:
(a) None of your band members are the person who attacked you.
(b) Weed is not known to be a generally "violent" drug.
and ergo (c) For all the other concerns about the drug use (reliabilty, productiveness, quality of their performances etc), it is unlikely to the point of negligibility that your band mates will attack you as a result of their drug use.

That doesn't mean to say you should be OK with it, or that you shouldn't say anything or do anything about it, I just don't think it is fair to project your previous horrific experience onto your bandmates.

Sounds cold when typed in black and white, but it isn't meant to be. I totally get why the idea of weed smoking would be a concern

Yeah I get what you are saying, I felt youvare not understanding MY point.

My issue ultimately is not the substance, it could be oxo cubes for all I care, perhaps an illicit Bovril ring...

the point im making is not the affect it has on the individual, but the types of people you have to deal with to obtain the stuff, i.e. Criminals.

People who who have no compunction beating the shit out of one of your mates over £20, then intimidating your family so you don't show up to court, leaving your mate to sit in the court while the criminals walk past him out the front door laughing.

Yeah that's what happened as direct result of weed.

DesVegas · March 2017

I would definitely walk if i were you, you're not going to get over what happened in the past and they're not going to give up having a good time because of you

Cabicular · March 2017

Danny1969 said:

It's not the substance that tends to be the problem, whever that be gear or alcohol but it's the takers awareness and ability to function on it. I work with a lot of big drinkers on the circuit and it's not really a problem, they can still play fine. Same with the big dope heads, they smoke so much they function fine on it.
I tend to find the biggest problems performance wise are with people who don't normally drink or smoke deciding to have a drink or smoke and they simply aren't used to it and then their playing goes to pot

My problem is option C... they "think" they are fine. In fact they are convinced of it

Teyeplayer · March 2017

@professorben I think due to the trauma of the experience you describe you are confusing the dealer and the user simply by association. I've had a very similiar experience to yours at a similar age, so I understand why you feel as you do -the long term impact of such an experience can be horrendous.

However, it is clear from your responses that you now associate all cannabis use with one negative event. As such when anyone here suggests that maybe it's not a big deal you have clearly become defensive in your tone. Now that would be the same as never drinking a glass of wine due to a particular life changing event (drink-drive accident, alcoholic parent, etc). Not unheard of is it, you have probably met folk with this outlook? We wouldn't dream of questioning that persons choice (which is why you are mildly annoyed by what has been said), but equally if asked an opinion we might respectfully suggest that alcohol doesn't make every drinker a drink driver or alcoholic. The similarity is obvious and clearly thuggish wannabe gangster dealers (the sort who we have both encountered in some form) are not the same as an everyday smoker.

The reality is that cannabis use is not that dissimilar from drinking (hops and hemp being of same genus I believe) and the loop holes and legalities that have ended in one being socially acceptable and one legally prohibited are somewhat ridiculous and hypocritical. The law is an ass.

So, what to do about your situation? A) leave because you are not comfortable with their choices -this is fine, perhaps ask yourself first, do you enjoy playing with them and do you enjoy their company?
B ) suggest clear headed practices, one of my old bands instilled a drink free rehearsal rule as we didn't get anything done otherwise -you may find this helps.

Modellista · March 2017

@RocknRollDave 's reply was excellent, along exactly the same lines as I was thinking. @professorben , your unfortunate experience was a direct result of coming into contact with professional criminals. The weed itself didn't beat you up. I'm sure we can all think of idiots we've known who were into drugs and/or alcohol, but if I come across someone new who happens to indulge, I don't automatically tar them with the same brush. You may or may not be able to get over what happened to you and its association with cannabis, but it doesn't mean that your new band mates are a risk to you because they smoke. Unless they happen to be professional criminals themselves which it sounds like they're not. I my part of the world and many others personal cannabis possession and use is effectively decriminalised. If there was no criminality involved, would you change your mind about their smoking?

Regardless of that point, as many have said, the use of any recreational drug is going to affect their playing. Cannabis is going to make it more difficult for them to think logically, may cause difficulty in keeping time, they may struggle with technology, they may retreat into their own heads rather than be fully engaged. On the plus side, plenty of bands have made great music whilst under the influence, because it opens up parts of the mind that our sober, logical minds keep locked away. Not so great for trying to play "Come On Eileen" at some provincial wedding, maybe very useful if you want to emulate The Grateful Dead, and go for drawn-out, thirty-minute, space jams. Which kind of band is yours?

Gassage · March 2017

Checked with Keith Richards.

He couldn't see the issue....

Teetonetal · March 2017

I would walk. But more because of the lack of rehearsals. The weed smoking would annoy me after a while though. I wouldn't want to go home to my kids stinking of weed on a regular basis and staying inside is bound to lead to a 3 vs 1 clique on any major decision.

professorben · March 2017

Gassage said:

Checked with Keith Richards.

He couldn't see the issue....

He also prob couldn't see anything in focus either.

Gulliver · March 2017

I 100% agree with @digitalscream - band time is business time. In any of my bands - what you do outside of band time is entirely your decision - but you show up to rehearsals and gigs sober and stay that way until everything is loaded out after.

professorben · March 2017

Teyeplayer said:

@professorben I think due to the trauma of the experience you describe you are confusing the dealer and the user simply by association. I've had a very similiar experience to yours at a similar age, so I understand why you feel as you do -the long term impact of such an experience can be horrendous.

However, it is clear from your responses that you now associate all cannabis use with one negative event. As such when anyone here suggests that maybe it's not a big deal you have clearly become defensive in your tone. Now that would be the same as never drinking a glass of wine due to a particular life changing event (drink-drive accident, alcoholic parent, etc). Not unheard of is it, you have probably met folk with this outlook? We wouldn't dream of questioning that persons choice (which is why you are mildly annoyed by what has been said), but equally if asked an opinion we might respectfully suggest that alcohol doesn't make every drinker a drink driver or alcoholic. The similarity is obvious and clearly thuggish wannabe gangster dealers (the sort who we have both encountered in some form) are not the same as an everyday smoker.

The reality is that cannabis use is not that dissimilar from drinking (hops and hemp being of same genus I believe) and the loop holes and legalities that have ended in one being socially acceptable and one legally prohibited are somewhat ridiculous and hypocritical. The law is an ass.

So, what to do about your situation? A) leave because you are not comfortable with their choices -this is fine, perhaps ask yourself first, do you enjoy playing with them and do you enjoy their company?
B ) suggest clear headed practices, one of my old bands instilled a drink free rehearsal rule as we didn't get anything done otherwise -you may find this helps.

I'm not confusing dealer and user.
There is not one without the other.

Weed and and beer may be related genetically but so are humans and dolphins if you go far enough, I've no wish to settle down and start a family with Flipper.

Your later points are valid tho, I do enjoy their company, and I can't see any impairment if focus or ability, or if there is they must be pretty shit hot when stone cold sober.

I'm just a bit upset cos I really wanted a band I could be mates with and make great music.

digitalscream · March 2017

professorben said:

I'm just a bit upset cos I really wanted a band I could be mates with and make great music.

In that case, it's well worth broaching the subject in a non-confrontational way (ie not handing them an ultimatum) before exercising the nuclear option. If it turns out smoking weed on band time is a totally non-negotiable point with them, then (personally) I think you're dodging a bullet further down the line.

blobb · March 2017

Drugs stifle creativity, no matter how much those that use them say otherwise.

professorben · March 2017

digitalscream said:

professorben said:

I'm just a bit upset cos I really wanted a band I could be mates with and make great music.

In that case, it's well worth broaching the subject in a non-confrontational way (ie not handing them an ultimatum) before exercising the nuclear option. If it turns out smoking weed on band time is a totally non-negotiable point with them, then (personally) I think you're dodging a bullet further down the line.

Ok valid points, but I'm perhaps not making my self clear sorry, it's not so much that the drinking or smoking are impacting the productivity or performance, I'm not sure I want to be in a band with guys that smoke weed full stop, either in practice, at home or strapped over a whicker chair being flogged with a bag of wine gums.

I cant expect people to modify their behaviour to suit me, tread on eggshells around my princess sensibilities, but I can exercise my right to walk.

I just kinda was gauging the wind before I made a decision.

professorben · March 2017

blobb said:

Drugs stifle creativity, no matter how much those that use them say otherwise.

Depends, I've seen stoned people get pretty bloody creative when hit with 3am munchies.

guitarfishbay · March 2017

professorben said:
I just kinda was gauging the wind before I made a decision.

It's your call though, if you're not happy you won't be in 6 months either. In that time you could've tried several other bandmates or bands.

As far as I'm concerned it isn't worth being involved with originals bands you don't see yourself being in for a long period of time... it takes ages to write and refine stuff so if you're going to resent spending the time with people long term then better to quit sooner than later

professorben · March 2017

guitarfishbay said:

professorben said:
I just kinda was gauging the wind before I made a decision.

It's your call though, if you're not happy you won't be in 6 months either. In that time you could've tried several other bandmates or bands.

As far as I'm concerned it isn't worth being involved with originals bands you don't see yourself being in for a long period of time... it takes ages to write and refine stuff so if you're going to resent spending the time with people long term then better to quit sooner than later

Yeah true.......

just been on JoinMyBand, so many opportunities, as long as I'm either:
1) A Drummer
2) Willing to play in a 60's covers band
3) Don't mind driving 3 hours to rehearsal and back.

Bridgehouse · March 2017

professorben said:
Yeah true.......

just been on JoinMyBand, so many opportunities, as long as I'm either:
1) A Drummer
2) Willing to play in a 60's covers band
3) Don't mind driving 3 hours to rehearsal and back.

In our neck of the woods it's Leicester, Nottingham, Lincoln or do without and play in your bedroom...

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