Ricky basses, are they as bad as this guy suggests?

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  • prowlaprowla Frets: 4896
    Who cares how easy they are to adjust when you're playing one?
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  • flyingvflyingv Frets: 555
    edited August 2017
    Had a 75 4001 Fireglo' fantastic bass.


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  • BorkBork Frets: 252
    F'ckin awful instruments - uncomfortable and dysfunctional, they lack versatility, and in my opinion the CEO John Hall is an arrogant arse.  Avoid them if you have alternatives.  even the Japanese made rips offs are better built although you might want to upgrade the pickups.

    [This space for rent]

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  • prowlaprowla Frets: 4896
    Bork said:
    F'ckin awful instruments - uncomfortable and dysfunctional, they lack versatility, and in my opinion the CEO John Hall is an arrogant arse.  Avoid them if you have alternatives.  even the Japanese made rips offs are better built although you might want to upgrade the pickups.
    That was all exactly the opposite of reality, apart from JH being arrogant.

    Ric are the best basses in the world.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71955
    Bork said:
    F'ckin awful instruments - uncomfortable and dysfunctional, they lack versatility, and in my opinion the CEO John Hall is an arrogant arse.  Avoid them if you have alternatives.  even the Japanese made rips offs are better built although you might want to upgrade the pickups.
    John Hall is certainly arrogant, that is true.

    Comfort is personal preference I admit, but for me they are the most comfortable bass, which is mainly why I play one.

    Lack versatility? Just look at the range of players and music genres they've been used in, from the 50s to the present. They are one of the *most* versatile basses.

    Japanese copies better quality? Rick quality can be a little variable, but there's no copy I've ever seen which is even close. That may be because RIC is so keen on legal action - it's probably not worth the trouble of anyone setting up for a decent quality production run, since they're likely to get sued immediately. Whether that's the right way to deal with competition or not is another question... but a licenced copy range will never happen while JH is in charge.

    I'm not a big fan of the company, but to say the basses (and guitars for that matter) are no good is simply plain wrong.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • BorkBork Frets: 252
    edited August 2017
    ICBM said:
    Bork said:
    F'ckin awful instruments - uncomfortable and dysfunctional, they lack versatility, and in my opinion the CEO John Hall is an arrogant arse.  Avoid them if you have alternatives.  even the Japanese made rips offs are better built although you might want to upgrade the pickups.
    John Hall is certainly arrogant, that is true.

    Comfort is personal preference I admit, but for me they are the most comfortable bass, which is mainly why I play one.

    Lack versatility? Just look at the range of players and music genres they've been used in, from the 50s to the present. They are one of the *most* versatile basses.

    Japanese copies better quality? Rick quality can be a little variable, but there's no copy I've ever seen which is even close. That may be because RIC is so keen on legal action - it's probably not worth the trouble of anyone setting up for a decent quality production run, since they're likely to get sued immediately. Whether that's the right way to deal with competition or not is another question... but a licenced copy range will never happen while JH is in charge.

    I'm not a big fan of the company, but to say the basses (and guitars for that matter) are no good is simply plain wrong.
    Let's be clear, I'm only talking about the basses.  Not guitars.

    They're not comfortable because those body edges dig into the ribs and forearm in an unpleasant way and they aren't designed for playing with fingers - which doesn't mean to say that it would prevent someone playing with fingers. All the players I can think of who are known for playing Rickenbackers have used a pick.

    Not versatile because no-one ever chose to play one in a function/covers band because they could nail the sound on a lot of songs unless they were doing prog or Jam.  When was the last time anyone saw someone slap on a Rickenbacker?  It sounds dreadful not only due to the electronics but also the string spacing.  No, definitely not versatile.

    The build quality (including design) is not brilliant - particularly the finishing and the bridge.  JH only started enforcing a claim relatively recently (since inheriting the company).  He even went after places selling secondhand Rickenbacker copies that were made before he started to enforce.  Copies that were already on the market, made in the 70's and 80's by Ibanez, Hondo, Tokai, Univox, Electra and Greco amongst others.  Some were not so good but the Ibanez ones were on a par (apart from pickups) and the Tokai versions were arguably better finished than Rickenbacker's own.

    Sure, they've got a distinctive sound and there's a place for them in musical history but let's not kid ourselves that these basses have ever the first choice of session pro's since they stopped being fashionable in the 70's. 

    [This space for rent]

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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71955
    Bork said:

    They're not comfortable because those body edges dig into the ribs and forearm in an unpleasant way and they aren't designed for playing with fingers - which doesn't mean to say that it would prevent someone playing with fingers. All the players I can think of who are known for playing Rickenbackers have used a pick.
    Wrong. It's the most comfortable bass shape for me, the edges do not dig in, and I play with fingers as much or more than with a pick. So do a lot of players.

    Bork said:

    Not versatile because no-one ever chose to play one in a function/covers band because they could nail the sound on a lot of songs unless they were doing prog or Jam.
    Wrong. You can get just about any bass sound out of a Rick with the right amp.

    Bork said:

    When was the last time anyone saw someone slap on a Rickenbacker?  It sounds dreadful not only due to the electronics but also the string spacing.
    Slap sounds dreadful, period. Don't blame the bass ;).

    Bork said:

    No, definitely not versatile.
    Wrong. Just look at the number of different players in different genres who have used them.

    Bork said:

    The build quality (including design) is rubbish - particularly the finishing and the bridge.
    Wrong. The bridge does have a slight issue with the metal being too weak and sometimes suffering from 'tail lift' as they get older, but the finishing is excellent.

    Bork said:

    JH only started staking a claim relatively recently (since inheriting the company).
    Wrong, it started in the 1960s under F.C. Hall. They would never be able to defend them now if they hadn't done since the beginning either - that's exactly why Fender have lost most of theirs.

    Bork said:

    The copies I'm referring to were made in the 70's and 80's by Ibanez, Hondo, Tokai, Univox, Electra and Greco amongst others.  Some were not so good but the Ibanez ones were on a par and the Tokai versions were better than Rickenbacker's own.
    Wrong. I've worked on many of them, and although the Ibanez ones are definitely the best they're still not in the same league as the real thing. The Tokai ones aren't as good.

    You probably don't like Ricks because they don't suit you for whatever reason, but you're still wrong on every point :). I really dislike all modern basses made from fancy woods and with active electronics that I've ever played, but I wouldn't claim they're no good or not the right choice for some players...

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • lasermonkeylasermonkey Frets: 1940
    My Ric 4001 is my go-to bass precisely because it's so versatile. If I could only have one bass, it would be the Ric.
    My wife asked me to stop singing Wonderwall.
    I said maybe.....
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  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 14321
    ICBM said:
    the Ibanez ones are definitely the best they're still not in the same league as the real thing. 
    I have to agree with this.

    ICBM said:
    You probably don't like Ricks because they don't suit you for whatever reason
    I bought my 4001 from an old friend. I soon had to stop myself from using it on everything. It was slanting my writing in ways that were not always appropriate for the songs. Sometimes, eighth note roots on a P Bass suffice.
    Be seeing you.
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  • prowlaprowla Frets: 4896
    My 2010 Ric has a finish I would put up against any mass-produced guitar.

    The neck is a delight.

    Questioning John Hall's credentials is funny - he was brought up on the company from the start; his mum designed the Ric logo!

    I doubt very much that he would be a friend of mine, but I respect the way he defends his brand (as do other companies, be they designer clothes, electronic gadgets, watches, car makers, drinks producers, or any other premium products, groups & artists, and so-on). It is far more responsible to his customers than allowing the market to be flooded with fakes which you can hardly tell from the original and you can't trust anybody selling one (I'm thinking Fender and Gibson); put a Ric up next to any 'faker and you can tell them apart.

    They are good for plectrum and fingerstyle; however, I would agree that the 4001 is not so good for slap, because of (a) the position of the neck pickup and (b) the pickguard is slightly microphonic if you tap it with your popping finger.

    Stereotyping them as only being suitable for the genres of a couple of memorable players (prog and The Jam) is a bit myopic; Macca played one in The Beatles and Wings, I watched a Kinks gig from '65 on TV and Peter Quaife was playing one, a number of punk bands had them, Kasabian and other modern bands have them, Deep Purple (unless you call them prog), Maurice Gibb used one.

    Me, I like the 'fakers; I think they're fun, but put one next to a real Ric and the quality of the Ric will be obvious. I'm not sure the vintage ones are any sort of a threat to Ric, but I guess he's just being even-handed in the approach to them; if the product infringed intellectual rights when it was produced 30 years ago, does it matter that 30 years have now passed?

    On the minus side, though I like its quirky design, I think the build of the bridge is poor and they really could have and should have sorted it; I've got a Hipshot on one.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71955
    prowla said:

    On the minus side, though I like its quirky design, I think the build of the bridge is poor and they really could have and should have sorted it; I've got a Hipshot on one.
    I agree. The fundamental problem is that the type of metal alloy just isn't good enough - combined with the thin-wall casting, it isn't strong enough to resist the upward pull of the strings and will usually eventually lift at the end. Straightening them doesn't work well - there's a good chance of cracking them, and even if you get away with it the problem comes back… mine did.

    Because I didn't want to replace the bridge, I came up with a different solution - I made a sort of miniature 'Fender bass bridge' from some right-angled aluminium strip, cut so it fits inside the space in the Rick tailpiece, and is screwed to the body. The strings pass through it and transfer the tension down to the body so the back end of the bridge is now being pulled down rather than up.

    In the interests of full disclosure for Bork ;), there are three other mods/improvements to my 4001…

    Pickups as already mentioned - Rickenbacker HB1 in the neck, and Kent Armstrong mini-humbucker in the bridge.

    'Vintage/modern' tone circuit - Rickenbacker now fit a pull-switch to the bridge tone pot to give either the 'vintage cap' bass-cut, or 'modern' without. This is useful, but since I never used the bridge tone control I just changed it into a rotary control to do the same thing, and which also gives all the tones in between (which are very useful).

    The fingerboard lacquer has been stripped off - before I got it. I'm not sure whether I prefer it or not, but I certainly don't mind it. I know a lot of people don't like the lacquered board.

    So perhaps they are not quite perfect as stock :). But even stock, I wouldn't play anything else by choice...

    By the way, I'm not questioning John Hall's credentials - just his attitude to criticism, including of things like the bridge quality. It's particularly frustrating when RIC go out of their way to block third party replacement parts - Hipshot only seem to get away with theirs because it looks so different.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • prowlaprowla Frets: 4896
    That's an interesting workaround; perhaps even a wrapover tailpiece attaching to the strap button might work.
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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24578
    edited August 2017
    Controversially, and also predictably, I have to state, you don't need to apply any workarounds to a Precision. 

    My 64 is stock, as it was when it left the factory 53 years ago, and it still does everything perfectly well with no signs of issues or wearing out. 
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71955
    Controversially, and also predictably, I have to state, you don't need to apply any workarounds to a Precision. 

    My 64 is stock, as it was when it left the factory 53 years ago, and it still does everything perfectly well with no signs of issues or wearing out. 
    Unless someone trips over the cable without having it run under the strap, and breaks the pickguard. Still the major flaw in the P-Bass design.

    One-all, I would say :).

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24578
    ICBM said:
    Controversially, and also predictably, I have to state, you don't need to apply any workarounds to a Precision. 

    My 64 is stock, as it was when it left the factory 53 years ago, and it still does everything perfectly well with no signs of issues or wearing out. 
    Unless someone trips over the cable without having it run under the strap, and breaks the pickguard. Still the major flaw in the P-Bass design.

    One-all, I would say :).
    Smoothhound wireless. No tripping over any cables...

    Your score is disallowed on a technicality... try again ;)
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71955
    Bridgehouse said:

    Your score is disallowed on a technicality... try again ;)
    A P-Bass has only one pickup, with two coils in series. A fault in either coil kills the output stone dead. (This does happen, sometimes.)

    A 4001/4003 has two pickups, two sets of controls, and two jacks. The only way you can't get at least one pickup working is if the switch completely disintegrates - and even then you could bodge it at a gig, if you had to.

    That's actually a very practical reason I like the Rick, and why I don't even have a spare bass.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24578
    ICBM said:
    Bridgehouse said:

    Your score is disallowed on a technicality... try again ;)
    A P-Bass has only one pickup, with two coils in series. A fault in either coil kills the output stone dead. (This does happen, sometimes.)

    A 4001/4003 has two pickups, two sets of controls, and two jacks. The only way you can't get at least one pickup working is if the switch completely disintegrates - and even then you could bodge it at a gig, if you had to.

    That's actually a very practical reason I like the Rick, and why I don't even have a spare bass.
    Twin Mono bag. Spare bass slot. Excellent quality spare P (MiM classic = £500)

    How much were those Ric basses again, and how much did the necessary "mods" cost again? ;)
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71955
    Bridgehouse said:

    Twin Mono bag. Spare bass slot. Excellent quality spare P (MiM classic = £500)

    How much were those Ric basses again, and how much did the necessary "mods" cost again? ;)
    Nothing. There are no necessary mods, just a few upgrades I happen to like. A stock Rick is fine, and if you need the RWRP mod that's free too.

    Mine was £900, although that's a while ago now.

    How much is a Twin Mono bag? ;). They also weigh a ton when you've got two basses inside :).

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24578
    ICBM said:
    Bridgehouse said:

    Twin Mono bag. Spare bass slot. Excellent quality spare P (MiM classic = £500)

    How much were those Ric basses again, and how much did the necessary "mods" cost again? ;)
    Nothing. There are no necessary mods, just a few upgrades I happen to like. A stock Rick is fine, and if you need the RWRP mod that's free too.

    Mine was £900, although that's a while ago now.

    How much is a Twin Mono bag? ;). They also weigh a ton when you've got two basses inside :).
    Are we really going to do a big long "my bass is better than yours!" thread? ;)

    There is merit in both, and both are iconic basses. Iconic sound, used by many artists and both very well respected.














    My bass is better than yours tho.. 
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71955
    lol

    OK then…. mine's better than yours nah nah nah nah nah.

    :)

    I do like Precisions a lot too, but this is a thread about why Ricks aren't crap so get your own ;).

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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