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Digital mixing desks

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  • Agree, I use an x18 with both my bands (separate router a must, run it on 5ghz too as you won't get so battered by competing signals). Behringer have put out an amazing product, FoH mix + six sub mixes for fold backs / iems.  Plus RTAs and very usable comps etc. Great for gigging bands. We have scenes set up for venues so it is a one button load often!
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  • Bumping this because I'm currently contemplating the purchase of a rackmount mixer for my band.

    We are a 8/9 piece TexMex-style band. Drums, bass, guitar, keys, accordion, harmonica, lead vox, 4 x backing vox, plus brass section, so we could easily eat up > 20 channels. Realistically though, I'd probably not put drums + bass through the PA so we could manage with less (12ish). 

    I'm looking at:

    A&H QU-SB
    Soundcraft Ui24R
    Behringer X32 Rack
    Behringer X32 Core + S16, S32, or SD16

    Any thoughts on any of these?

    R.
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357
    The only one I haven't used out of that lot is the Soundcraft, all will do the job but I recommend the A&H QU-SB purely because I have been using QU mixers across bands and PA company ever since the first QU16 came out about 4 years ago. They are rock solid in operation, well built, decent quality effects and dynamics. The ap works well and the multitrack recording to a fast USB drive is reliable and brilliant for recording gigs. It's also got enough aux sends for 5 stereo IEM mixes or you can add on the truly brilliant ME1 personal monitor mixers 
    Currently we are using  3 different QU16 mixers across 3 different bands, we have spec'ed them for installs and 2020 studios use a QU24 theatre shows. Nothing bad to report in all of this so highly recommended being the SB is just the surface-less version of this well proven platform 
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • andyozandyoz Frets: 718
    edited September 2017
    I've got a QU-SB and it's good value for money. Note that the authorized app is only iOS and the Android one isn't great IMO. All inputs/outputs are well sorted and you'll be thankful if the slanted front panel as thee often get out outvifvthe way at least level at gigs.

    I don't get how the rear panel inputs on the Behringer X32 Rack would be user friendly at all for gigs? Behringer stuff is amazing value for money too though.

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  • TBH, if I went Behringer I'd go for the Core with separate digital snake{s}.

    I was pretty much settled on the AH, then a pro friend (studio + PA hire) recommended Behringer. Then I saw the Soundcraft.

    Still undecided... 
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357

    Some key points to consider are :-1: 

    Has it got enough inputs ?
    Has it got enough aux sends .... remember IEM's when used in stereo (such as they should be in a civilised world) use 2 aux sends per person
    Has it got good quality dynamics on every channel and at least 2 great quality master effects (nice verb and delay etc)

    What's the remote ap like .... I hate the Behringer one, dislike Mackies DL one as well  but like Presonus and A&H's ....with a surfaceless mixer the ap is the only interface so really important

    Is it well proven and reliable .... it's too early for the Soundcraft to tell but the Behringer comes from the X32 stable which is well proven in the PA industry as a cheap FOH and (more likely) stage  monitor mixer, mainly cos of digital splits and cheapness in all honestly but it's well supported 
    The QU has the best pedigree, build quality, the most aux sends, the best dynamics and master effects but I think it's more money. 


    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • Another option: Yamaha TF-Rack

    Pricey, but better pedigree?

    R.
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  • mike257mike257 Frets: 374
    The X32 is the most fully featured in my experience, and unlike the QU series, everything in the X32 family is capable of being expanded to the full complement of inputs and outputs through the stageboxes.

    I've had horrendous reliability issues with the Soundcraft Ui16 that would make me wary of anything else in that range. It's not a product they developed in-house, it was a company called SMpro, who Harman Group bought out to get the product which was essentially just slightly tweaked and rebranded with the Soundcraft/Lexicon names.
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  • andyozandyoz Frets: 718
    edited September 2017
    From what I have seen of the QU-SB and XR apps the Behringer struck me as nicer. Also the QU can't be laptop controlled like the Behringer so you don't have that ultimate fallback at gigs...when WiFi shites itself.. Unless I'm misunderstanding. I have a QU-SB by the way.
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  • Well, I went for a Yamaha TF-Rack. I saw a good deal on an ex-demo unit and haggled an even lower price.

    It's arriving tomorrow, I'll report back.

    R.
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  • andyozandyoz Frets: 718
    edited September 2017
    I hadn't seen that model before and realised its relatively knew.  Knowing Yamaha it will be well sorted and great value.

    I think units with a screen on front are a good bet if you can afford it in case the wifi goes AWOL as you can at least keep things going.

    EDIT: just had a closer look and IOS and Android apps look really well sorted.  It will be a hit no doubt.

    I assume this is yours and looks like a bargain. https://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/product/170602310985008-681893--yamaha-tf-rack-digital-mixer-ex-demo-bcxh01022?gclid=CjwKCAjwo4jOBRBmEiwABWNaMSp1LwsGRjgxYZnpkIwnxfSDwzKtvZS9KJqgcCKOE0vvV_v6Bs2M0RoCflcQAvD_BwE

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  • Yeah, the Yamaha name was a big factor.

    My only concern is expansion. To add more channels I'd need an NY-64D expansion card plus a Tio1608-D unit. Not cheap.

    R.
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  • smigeonsmigeon Frets: 282
    edited March 2018
    Hi all - I'm bumping this thread as I found it very illuminating for a person like myself who is in the market for a new (digital) mixer for my band, and I thought I'd check if anyone had new thoughts since the thread dried up - e.g. any further experiences with digital mixers, or any recently released products.

    We are a 6-piece pub rock band with 2 singers, 2 guitarists (who also sing), and bass and drums. We are used to putting everything through our PA, which has decent EV speakers and power amps, but we're frustrated with our old 16 channel Yamaha mixer - e.g. we can't get enough personal monitoring feeds from it and we're tired of setting up snakes.

    Based on the discussion, I'm pretty well eliminating Soundcraft and Mackie, and am mulling over the following digital mixers (prices as per Thomann):

    - RCF M 18 (£360)
    - Behringer X Air XR16 (£400)
    Behringer X Air X18 (£440)
    - the t.mix DM 20 (£570)
    - MIDAS MR 18 (£616)
    - Allen & Heath QU-SB (£870)

    We might also be persuaded to spend a bit more cash and consider things like:

    - Allen & Heath Qu-PAC (£1,177)
    - Yamaha TF Rack (£1500)
    - Allen & Heath Qu-16 Chrome (£1,570)
    - Yamaha TF-1 (£1900) (probably out of range of our pockets!)

    I take the points made in the discussion above about the benefits of a physical control surface as opposed to iPad only control, but I *think* we're probably going to be content with the cheaper iPad-only solutions, given that we are pretty much a "set and play" band.

    Would much appreciate any thoughts... Key criteria? Recommendations??
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  • RolandRoland Frets: 8590
    Horses:courses. @Danny1969 likes Allen & Heath. My colleagues are very cost conscious, and went for the Behringer X18.

    It does what we need. The sound is clearer than our analogue desk. We use an external wireless router for resilience, reliability, and better security. The bass player has a Mac cables into the desk. Three of us connect our iPads, mainly to adjust our personal monitor mixes. 

    On Saturday we did our first repeat location since getting the desk. We loaded the saved settings from the previous visit, checked that everything was connected, and were ready to go.

    Using an iPad rather than a physical desk takes getting used to. There are some controls that you have to find through sub-menus. However once set up there’s very little that you have to change between venues.

    One thing which we’ve found very useful is the ability to record into a PC, then go out front and listen to the playback. Apart from backline, which is low volume for personal monitoring, and of course the drums, you’re hearing what the audience hears.
    Tree recycler, and guitarist with  https://www.undercoversband.com/.
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  • smigeonsmigeon Frets: 282
    edited February 2018
    Yeah, thanks @Roland. We're pretty cost conscious as well :-).

    I actually thought that the Behringer X18 X Air had been discontinued as it's not available at Thomann anymore. But I see it still is widely available elsewhere, so I'll add that to my list. It seems to sell new for £440.

    Do you find your X18 robust enough?? Just from looking at photos, the XR16 (rack model) looks more robust - although on the downside it seems to have only 8 XLR inputs, with the rest being 6.3mm jacks - which seems a bit of a pity.
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  • andyozandyoz Frets: 718
    edited February 2018
    If it was me I'd limit choices to the Midas MR18 or A&H QU-SB.  QU-SB is essentially the core of their QU 32 desk so there's lots in there..

    Friends use the Behrigner XR16 and it actually failed BUT Behringer collected it from house and had it back them fixed within 2 days (important that).  they actually regret not getting the XR18 as its got onboard recording etc (not sure how the Midas MR18 differs from the XR18 to be honest).  Note that the onboard multi-track recording on the QU range is VERY well sorted.

    I personally have the QU-SB as it's just a more pro looking unit in term of casing as it's a rack width and all metal casing - it feels premium product and I noticed they did have to drop the price a good bit about a year ago to keep competitive.  There is no comparison in the flesh between it and the Behringer/Midas offerings...the QU-SB feel 'tough'.  Once racked up I guess it doesn't matter as much.  I assume mic pre-amps etc are similar though...

    Having compared the QU and Behrinegr ipad apps I actually preferred the Behringer one.  I guess they have a user base say 10 times that of Allen & Heath so can put more funds into it and the revisions. They use color better so it;s easier to see what window your in ...monitor mix etc.

    if you are a set and play band then the non fader version should be fine...first few gigs will be interesting but once you've got the setups then it settles down..  Remember the non fader version essentially function as a stage box and you can sit it on the ground etc so easier for small venue...you can put it places you wouldn't want place a full desk.   Means cable runs can be simpler....i.e. put it beside the drummer so cables tend to be going to rear of the stage instead of across the stage to the typical mixing desk on a sub at side of stage setup.

    Also remember that the onboard Behringer wifi is generally regarded as being poor great so plan on using an external router anyway (unless they have improved it?) and don't base your decision on the Behringer/Midas being an all in one solution.

    No matter what, all this stuff a complete bargain compared to what you'd have to spend for the same functionality 10 years ago.

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  • I went for the TF-Rack and am really pleased with it.

    R.


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  • John_PJohn_P Frets: 2744
    If you don’t need it to be in a rack then the x18 is a bargain.     I use one and an x32 and for pub gigs the x18 is fine, robust enough imo but put it in a bag.  Mine sits in a flight case.  Just check it has  enough monitor sends and you are fine with the aux buses being a jack output.  
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  • andyozandyoz Frets: 718
    edited February 2018
    I'd love to see how the Yamaha TF-1 compares to the venerable QU-16.

    Yamaha rarely make mistakes and the QU design is getting older now.

    Yamaha desk looks the part anyway.
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