Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Sign In with Google

Become a Subscriber!

Subscribe to our Patreon, and get image uploads with no ads on the site!

Read more...

Micing your amp - what microphone?

What's Hot
245

Comments

  • With my Peavey EDI box, fits between amp and speaker. Works brilliantly, very close in tone to a single SM57 in a studio setting. 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • CirrusCirrus Frets: 8481
    With my Peavey EDI box, fits between amp and speaker. Works brilliantly, very close in tone to a single SM57 in a studio setting. 
    Ok, first of all I'm on the iPad and accidentally lol'd you, genuinely tried but can't un-lol. So, sorry!  =)

    problem i I have with that is that I do think the differences between speaker models are enough to matter live, so I want the FOH sound to reflect what my amp actually sounds like, which is a choice I've made.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • p90foolp90fool Frets: 31368
    I'm usually on tiny stages so the Superlux version of the 906 works really well for me. 
    I have a flexi mic arm on my combo stand which holds it exactly where I like, halfway between cone and edge, about an inch from the cloth.

    You can just drape it through the amp handle, but it rarely stays put IME. 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • vizviz Frets: 10647
    viz said:
    In the studio I would say an SM57 and an ambient mic of your choice to mix in but live, I honestly cannot understand using a mic at all these days. Sorry but it makes no sense to me, can someone tell me the benefits?
    It's a great question, and I think in small and large venues you're right. If you've got a pub, you can get away with a 50w 2x12 or whatever, and if you're in an open air festival you can have a backline, but in a largish hall you've got to mic up otherwise it'll be too directional and sterile and divorced from the rest of the music.
    Sorry Viz you misunderstood me, I mean instead of a good DI box? 
    Ah yes ok. Though I haven't ever found a good di box either!
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    SM57 or H&K Red Box.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • No problem guys not a troll about this, but about 20-25 years ago I first came across the EDI box, at the time the Red Box simulator box was around and not much else. I owned local music shop at time and I was asked to do a PA demo for some bands where I showed how things had changed in live sound. 
    Some of us are old enough to remember no monitors and a HH 100w top with a speaker either side. 
    Well anyway I talked about using monitors and the disadvantages of high volume onstage and also so many mics. I thought I would use a peavey classic 30 with EDI box fitted in back and a SM57 on front of amp on stand pointing between center and outside edge of cone. 
    Now I used no EQ on either just kept both flat EQ and as I had a guitarist playing asked audience of which there were quite a few guitarists which is mic and which is EDI box, no one was confident enough to say they could tell, so as I had the guitarist moving round stage I asked him to accidentally knock mic stand enough to make mic move about an inch, now the sound understandably changed as mic was no longer pointing at same spot.
    now I know some of you use the flat type mic hanging over top of amp so that takes that issue out of argument, but I started thinking if I could really tell the difference, and to be honest I think there are subtleties that can be lost but in a live gig situation whEre each room is different and we EQ our amps and effects differently to cope with it I thought it wasn't worth hassle to use a mic. And never have since. Every sound engineer has found it really easy to get a good sound from it and funny thing is, I think it seems to work better with Marshall amps than with Peavey. 
    When I did my last studio recording with my country band, the sound engineer wanted to use his own crossed mics system of mic'ing up where I wanted to use the traditional sm57 and another ambient mic. He kept saying his system worked brilliantly so as we had about 10-15 mins before drummer got there we tried his system the traditional system and my DI box, my DI box came 2nd to the tried and trusted SM57 and an ambient mic. 
    For live use I won't think of using anything else. Don't even know how much they are now, used to be £43 back in early 90's. Probably as much as a mic now. 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • vizviz Frets: 10647
    No problem guys not a troll about this, but about 20-25 years ago I first came across the EDI box, at the time the Red Box simulator box was around and not much else. I owned local music shop at time and I was asked to do a PA demo for some bands where I showed how things had changed in live sound. 
    Some of us are old enough to remember no monitors and a HH 100w top with a speaker either side. 
    Well anyway I talked about using monitors and the disadvantages of high volume onstage and also so many mics. I thought I would use a peavey classic 30 with EDI box fitted in back and a SM57 on front of amp on stand pointing between center and outside edge of cone. 
    Now I used no EQ on either just kept both flat EQ and as I had a guitarist playing asked audience of which there were quite a few guitarists which is mic and which is EDI box, no one was confident enough to say they could tell, so as I had the guitarist moving round stage I asked him to accidentally knock mic stand enough to make mic move about an inch, now the sound understandably changed as mic was no longer pointing at same spot.
    now I know some of you use the flat type mic hanging over top of amp so that takes that issue out of argument, but I started thinking if I could really tell the difference, and to be honest I think there are subtleties that can be lost but in a live gig situation whEre each room is different and we EQ our amps and effects differently to cope with it I thought it wasn't worth hassle to use a mic. And never have since. Every sound engineer has found it really easy to get a good sound from it and funny thing is, I think it seems to work better with Marshall amps than with Peavey. 
    When I did my last studio recording with my country band, the sound engineer wanted to use his own crossed mics system of mic'ing up where I wanted to use the traditional sm57 and another ambient mic. He kept saying his system worked brilliantly so as we had about 10-15 mins before drummer got there we tried his system the traditional system and my DI box, my DI box came 2nd to the tried and trusted SM57 and an ambient mic. 
    For live use I won't think of using anything else. Don't even know how much they are now, used to be £43 back in early 90's. Probably as much as a mic now. 
    Not trolling, all opinions useful! So with DI, do you take the signal from the amp's output, bypassing the speakers, straight to the desk?
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • Yes, straight DI out of box left in back of amp. There is a timbre mini pot on side of box as its only control. I got someone to slowly turn it with flat EQ on desk till it sounded best to me. 
    I originally had it in my old Marshall JCM 800 1x12 4010 combo. I honestly could not tell difference between speaker and PA sound. On the Peavey I could as it sounded slightly better than stock speaker. I actually glued it onto side wall of my EXcelsior amp now and its permanently on through the PA, I leave amp on same setting every night and just turn PA channel up or down depending on venue. 
    I thought it sounded far better than the Palmer Red Box which you also had to power by 9v battery and which was twice the price at the time. 
    Will get a pic of amp later with EDI. Not trying to convert anyone it's just something I will never get rid of, mate has borrowed amp and used it as well and thought it jworked spot on. 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • vizviz Frets: 10647
    edited October 2017
    Yes, straight DI out of box left in back of amp. There is a timbre mini pot on side of box as its only control. I got someone to slowly turn it with flat EQ on desk till it sounded best to me. 
    I originally had it in my old Marshall JCM 800 1x12 4010 combo. I honestly could not tell difference between speaker and PA sound. On the Peavey I could as it sounded slightly better than stock speaker. I actually glued it onto side wall of my EXcelsior amp now and its permanently on through the PA, I leave amp on same setting every night and just turn PA channel up or down depending on venue. 
    I thought it sounded far better than the Palmer Red Box which you also had to power by 9v battery and which was twice the price at the time. 
    Will get a pic of amp later with EDI. Not trying to convert anyone it's just something I will never get rid of, mate has borrowed amp and used it as well and thought it jworked spot on. 
    Sounds good, but with my amp setup the speakers are a very important component of my sound, at least I believe that to be the case, though I will try it. 

    I know that introducing a mic into the chain is a source of problems, as evidenced by the colouration my 906 lends to the sound, to my ear anyway. Last weekend I used an SM58 instead, pointing directly at the side of the cone - with the amp facing the back of the stage, which is how I normally do it - and it sounded really amazing. Crisp, raw and faithful. 
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    edited October 2017
    viz said:

    So with DI, do you take the signal from the amp's output, bypassing the speakers, straight to the desk?
    Yes.

    The only suggestion I would make is that if possible and the amp has one, always use a second speaker jack (either 'extension' or one of the other impedance taps) to connect separately to the box, rather than running *through* the box to the speakers. There's no difference in the signal the box gets, but running the speaker current through it is potentially more risky to the amp, because you're introducing another cable, two jacks and plugs, and several solder connections into the signal path - if any one of these fails the amp will be left with no load. You also don't need to use a speaker cable if you're just connecting the box separately to the amp, because it is no longer carrying the speaker current. (The only exception is that if the extension speaker jack automatically switches the amp's impedance, or is in series with the internal speaker, but that's fairly rare.)

    I agree with koneguitarist - the sound out front is so heavily dependent on the PA, and especially if the EQ is not left flat, that it's a moot point as to whether what the audience hears bears any relation to your carefully chosen speaker type at all. Mic placement when right up against the grille can also make the sound *very* different from what you think the cab sounds like from even a few feet away - and if you move the mic an inch it can drastically change too.

    I'll usually just go with what the soundman wants. Some want to use their own mics, some won't use anyone else's DI box, some don't care. I have a 57 and a Red Box which cover the remaining options - the Red Box can also be used in an emergency to replace the amp entirely and go from pedalboard direct to PA.

    It could be worse, you could be playing bass... many sound engineers still like to insist on DI'ing the *bass*, not the amp - so what the audience hears has nothing to do with the sound on stage from your expensive bass amp at all.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • bbill335bbill335 Frets: 1368
    People saying that 609/906 type mics move around if you drape them - gaffa tape. 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • @ICBM cheers didn't know that. 
    With the EDI it was designed to replicate the tone of a Celestions 12" and comparing it with old Marshall bears that out. 
    As for bass DI, I actually like a clean pure bass tone so prefer the DI output and use amp low vol onstage. With my band the bassist has a GK rig with 4x10" cab, very really put it through PA, and even then I EQ desk so it sounds as much like his amp out front sound just louder. 
    Years ago I was asked to dep on bass at a NYE gig at a large venue where I was asked to use the stack provided by main band, who then told me not to mess with any controls? 
    So I used a DI box to PA then into amp, and had his bass amp so low you could hardly hear it offstage. The bassist rushed up to me after our set saying how good my 63 jazz bass was with his amp. When he looked at volumes of his amp, he was so pissed off realising what I had done as he either had to do a full sound check or go with same sound using his bass. 
    Im the guy that in the studio I don't even take a bass amp. 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • bbill335 said:
    People saying that 609/906 type mics move around if you drape them - gaffa tape. 
    That looks so unprofessional as opposed to a clean amp front ;-)
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • vizviz Frets: 10647
    ICBM said:
    viz said:

    So with DI, do you take the signal from the amp's output, bypassing the speakers, straight to the desk?
    Yes.

    The only suggestion I would make is that if possible and the amp has one, always use a second speaker jack (either 'extension' or one of the other impedance taps) to connect separately to the box, rather than running *through* the box to the speakers. There's no difference in the signal the box gets, but running the speaker current through it is potentially more risky to the amp, because you're introducing another cable, two jacks and plugs, and several solder connections into the signal path - if any one of these fails the amp will be left with no load. You also don't need to use a speaker cable if you're just connecting the box separately to the amp, because it is no longer carrying the speaker current. (The only exception is that if the extension speaker jack automatically switches the amp's impedance, or is in series with the internal speaker, but that's fairly rare.)

    I agree with koneguitarist - the sound out front is so heavily dependent on the PA, and especially if the EQ is not left flat, that it's a moot point as to whether what the audience hears bears any relation to your carefully chosen speaker type at all. Mic placement when right up against the grille can also make the sound *very* different from what you think the cab sounds like from even a few feet away - and if you move the mic an inch it can drastically change too.

    I'll usually just go with what the soundman wants. Some want to use their own mics, some won't use anyone else's DI box, some don't care. I have a 57 and a Red Box which cover the remaining options - the Red Box can also be used in an emergency to replace the amp entirely and go from pedalboard direct to PA.

    It could be worse, you could be playing bass... many sound engineers still like to insist on DI'ing the *bass*, not the amp - so what the audience hears has nothing to do with the sound on stage from your expensive bass amp at all.
    You mean, go from head to cab, then cab to di box to desk?

    This is really interesting. Because I always struggle to hear myself on stage, even if I'm flapping the crowds' trousers out front. However I can easily hear the drums and bass. 

    Maybe what I need is my amp head behind me, a longish lead to a 1x12 or 2x12 angled cab out front, to use asy own personal monitor; then DI (or mic, come to think of it) to the desk. 
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • That would work. 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • vizviz Frets: 10647
    edited October 2017
    Amazing. How the hell did I never think of that all these years. And I've got a spare 12" wedge with an input and a link jack socket and a spare V30 that I can install. And the head's got cabinet-voiced output jack anyway so I can DI to the desk from the head if easier (unless that disables the lead to the speakers?)
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • wayneiriewayneirie Frets: 419
    edited October 2017
    ICBM said:
    viz said:

    So with DI, do you take the signal from the amp's output, bypassing the speakers, straight to the desk?


    It could be worse, you could be playing bass... many sound engineers still like to insist on DI'ing the *bass*, not the amp - so what the audience hears has nothing to do with the sound on stage from your expensive bass amp at all.
    I usually DI the bass and Mic the Cab as well. DI for the clean and then blend the amp tone in. If you're doing multiple bands it keeps the bass consistent. You know its going to work as well. Amp Di outs vary enormously in quality and output. The palmer boxes are also great for guitar. 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357
    The thing with bass is a lot of players will compress their bass amp a far bit .... either with an onboard compressor or if it's something like an SVT slight distortion. Now that sounds OK coming out of the cab onstage but when you put that same signal through a nice clear PA it's generally too much ..... so I prefer to take a DI that's pre EQ \ pre \ compression etc 

    I agree you lose something though, especially with Ampeg 8 x 10"s which have a lovely growl . There was a time I was mic;ing as well with a Beta 52 or similar but there was generally too much spill from other instruments on the small stages 
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • merlinmerlin Frets: 6598
    Just asking, has anyone come across and/or tried a TUL G12?

    http://www.tulmicrophones.com/G12.html
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • viz said:
    Amazing. How the hell did I never think of that all these years. And I've got a spare 12" wedge with an input and a link jack socket and a spare V30 that I can install. And the head's got cabinet-voiced output jack anyway so I can DI to the desk from the head if easier (unless that disables the lead to the speakers?)
    That's what I love about small amps, crank them to tone you want then point them at you for monitor purpose then go out through PA. also reduces volume onstage which is never a bad thing. 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
Sign In or Register to comment.