Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Sign In with Google

Become a Subscriber!

Subscribe to our Patreon, and get image uploads with no ads on the site!

Read more...

Micing your amp - what microphone?

What's Hot
135

Comments

  • robinbowesrobinbowes Frets: 3021
    viz said:

    Maybe what I need is my amp head behind me, a longish lead to a 1x12 or 2x12 angled cab out front, to use asy own personal monitor; then DI (or mic, come to think of it) to the desk. 

    This is why I bought a monitor wedge to use with my Helix. :)

    R.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71957
    viz said:

    You mean, go from head to cab, then cab to di box to desk?
    If the cab has a parallel output jack then that will work too. If it doesn't, connect to any spare speaker jack on the amp.

    viz said:

    And I've got a spare 12" wedge with an input and a link jack socket and a spare V30 that I can install. And the head's got cabinet-voiced output jack anyway so I can DI to the desk from the head if easier (unless that disables the lead to the speakers?)
    It won't. That should work perfectly without the need for a dedicated speaker-emulator box.

    You'll still need the (now silent) 4x12" on stage under the head or you'll look silly and Not Like A Rock Star though.

    :)

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

    1reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • vizviz Frets: 10644
    ICBM said:
    viz said:

    You mean, go from head to cab, then cab to di box to desk?
    If the cab has a parallel output jack then that will work too. If it doesn't, connect to any spare speaker jack on the amp.

    viz said:

    And I've got a spare 12" wedge with an input and a link jack socket and a spare V30 that I can install. And the head's got cabinet-voiced output jack anyway so I can DI to the desk from the head if easier (unless that disables the lead to the speakers?)
    It won't. That should work perfectly without the need for a dedicated speaker-emulator box.

    You'll still need the (now silent) 4x12" on stage under the head or you'll look silly and Not Like A Rock Star though.

    :)
    Both of them, you mean. 
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
    2reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • vizviz Frets: 10644
    The line out on my carvin legacy sounds disgusting. It's ok on clean (what isn't?) but it's revolting on dirty. Kone, you play predominantly clean do you not?

    Question: does the line out come out between the preamp and the power amp, much like the loop, so I use a standard guitar cable? Except that it's "cabinet voiced" so probably eq'd?

    It's not at speaker-driving current is it?

    Mine either sounds revolting because it just does without the gorgeous Carvin Legacy power stage, or because my mixer / powered PA combo isn't set up for sounding like a guitar amp (or both)

    @icbm or anyone else!
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • wayneiriewayneirie Frets: 419
    https://www.thomann.de/gb/palmer_pdi_03_jb.htm?ref=prod_rel_247762_9 this is the di in question/similar to the product described it sits between your head and cab
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • vizviz Frets: 10644
    edited October 2017
    Cheers dude, yep I've got one of them - a bit simpler than that one but anyhoo - but the thing is, it goes out of the amp before hitting the power stage, correct?
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • wayneiriewayneirie Frets: 419
    edited October 2017
    input from the head, thru to the cab , then out to the console. Its after the power stage Ie It sees whats coming out the amp then links thru to the speaker. The inbuilt di on your head is probably just the preamp. of the amp.https://images.static-thomann.de/pics/atg/atgdata/document/manual/355407_bedienungsanleitung_en_de_fr_es.pdf
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • vizviz Frets: 10644
    Ok but then the mixer would see a fully amplified signal and then send that to my (powered) pa speakers, which would be bad wouldn't it? That's why I'm thinking surely the direct out from my amp exits after the preamp but before the power stage?
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • vizviz Frets: 10644
    Ah, just read your post again. Yes - we're agreeing aren't we? About the positioning of my amp's line out?
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • wayneiriewayneirie Frets: 419
    edited October 2017
    I don't know your amp, But usually the DI out is off the Preamp. I think some amps have a built in redbox which achieves a similar thing to the palmer. The Palmer is effectively a speaker you can DI the output is @ mic/line level, theres an attempt to capture the interaction of the power stage and the speaker. Rather than just whatever it is thats hitting the preamp. Definitely try blending the Mic with loadbox. 

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • vizviz Frets: 10644
    Ok that's what I think, thanks a lot. (Not using a mic, that's the whole point of this exercise) - thank you!
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • @viz ; I play overdriven a lot using pedals nowadays, but clean overdriven or dirty no problem with the EDI box. It comes after power amp not preamp and takes whole tone of amp inc settings and just replaces the Speaker tone with a consistent to every gig simulated speaker tone. Most amp DI on amps sound fizzy to my ears, same with using attenuators, there's a harshness there which whilst using HB's might not be so bad but with a tele bridge pickup, unplayable at times. 
    Get none of that with Peavey box, after my last gig on 20th, will send it to you to try one out if you like, not selling it but you can try it on a few gigs. 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • vizviz Frets: 10644
    edited October 2017
    @viz ;; I play overdriven a lot using pedals nowadays, but clean overdriven or dirty no problem with the EDI box. It comes after power amp not preamp and takes whole tone of amp inc settings and just replaces the Speaker tone with a consistent to every gig simulated speaker tone. Most amp DI on amps sound fizzy to my ears, same with using attenuators, there's a harshness there which whilst using HB's might not be so bad but with a tele bridge pickup, unplayable at times. 
    Get none of that with Peavey box, after my last gig on 20th, will send it to you to try one out if you like, not selling it but you can try it on a few gigs. 
    A few gigs! I'll have to hand it back in 2018 at this rate then! No seriously, that's really good of you but I suspect it's not the box despite what you say - I've got some active and passive BSS professional stage DI boxes from a recent tour and it's no different. It's that the line out is not nice, I'm sure of it.

    Are you SURE it's past the power stage? Surely then you'd need speaker cable into the box, not just a guitar lead, and something more substantial than mic cable after it? And you'd have to use a passive PA, wouldn't you? 
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • smigeonsmigeon Frets: 282
    edited October 2017
    @viz As I understand it, these things are connected in parallel with the speaker. But as they present a very high input impedance, they only take a very low current, so they have negligible effect on the amp's output stage or the volume coming out of the speaker. But you do get the characteristics of the amp's power stage - albeit without, of course, the physical characteristics of the speaker. But the boxes use some sort of internal speaker emulation to try to get around this.

    Once into the DI box, this low-current 'tap' is converted to a balanced line-level signal that can be fed into a mixer.

    Some of these boxes are passive - i.e. don't need any power supply - and others run off a battery or use phantom power from the mixer. 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • wayneiriewayneirie Frets: 419
    It's Not a Conventional Di Box. You need a speaker Cable. Its From the speaker out into the box then from the thru into the cab. all the power from the output stage goes down the cable into the box then out to the cab. see the manual i Linked. do not use signal cable.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • vizviz Frets: 10644
    smigeon said:
    @viz As I understand it, these things are connected in parallel with the speaker. But as they present a very high input impedance, they only take a very low current, so they have negligible effect on the amp's output stage or the volume coming out of the speaker. But you do get the characteristics of the amp's power stage - albeit without, of course, the physical characteristics of the speaker. But the boxes use some sort of internal speaker emulation to try to get around this.

    Once into the DI box, this low-current 'tap' is converted to a balanced line-level signal that can be fed into a mixer.

    Some of these boxes are passive - i.e. don't need any power supply - and others run off a battery or use phantom power from the mixer. 
    Ah ok cool, and I understand at last @wayneirie! Thanks!
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • Your amp doesn't change at all, nothing to do with lineout from amp. It goes between speaker and amp so you definitely need a speaker lead. 
    Offer stands anyway. If you look at my band YT vids over last 5 years it's all that DI box. 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • vizviz Frets: 10644
    Your amp doesn't change at all, nothing to do with lineout from amp. It goes between speaker and amp so you definitely need a speaker lead. 
    Offer stands anyway. If you look at my band YT vids over last 5 years it's all that DI box. 
    Pm'd :)
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71957
    viz said:

    Are you SURE it's past the power stage? Surely then you'd need speaker cable into the box, not just a guitar lead, and something more substantial than mic cable after it? And you'd have to use a passive PA, wouldn't you? 
    Yes, it's definitely after the power stage. You do need a speaker cable if you're running it in-line between the amp and speaker, but not if you're connecting it separately to another speaker jack - because the box itself has a high input impedance, so it won't draw any significant current. It makes no difference to the PA.

    For what it's worth I think the Peavey EDI is transformer-based - I think it must be if it's passive - and I've always found these sound better for electric guitar however you're doing it, than the supposedly 'better' active type. (The Red Box is active, but to be honest I only really got it because it will accept a pedal-level signal as well, which I don't think the EDI will.)

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • Never tried that. I just leave it permanently in back of amp plugged in with short XLR to reach mixer which is above amp on stand. 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
Sign In or Register to comment.