Beauty and the Beast

thomasross20 · September 2017

viz said:

Intro) D, Dsus4 (x4)
V1) D, Dsus4, D, Dsus4; D, f#m, G, A7 (I-iii-IV-V)
V2) D, Dsus4, D, am-D7-G (ii-V-I) em-A7-D (ii-V-I)

Bridge) f#m, G, f#m, G, f#m, bm, C, (D), E! (modulation to E major)

V3) E, Esus4, E, Esus4, E, g#m, A, B7 (as V1 but up a tone)
V4) E, Esus4, E, bm-E7-A; f#m-B7-E.
Ending) c#m, A, f#m, B7, E (vi-IV-ii-V-I)

The modulation is interesting because you expect it to do an Elton John - going from the C to the A7, ready for D again, à la Circle of Life, but it goes (via a passing note D) to E major, which is a nice way of rising a tone, much more joyful and less lazy than the "trucker's gear shift" of jamming the song up a semitone.

The sus4s: Obviously you can play the IV chord instead (so a G in verses 1 and 2, or an A in verses 3 and 4), but it's more effective to play a sus4 so you can keep the pedal in the bass - it makes it smoother, not so clunky as going I-IV-I-IV.

The other nice thing, which you've identified, is that in verse 2 (and 4), they do that clever trick of utilising the minor v chord en route to modulating fleetingly to the IV chord - the G. Normally the A would be major (well A dom7 actually). But by playing an a minor, it really softens the harmony and it allows you, almost teases you, into playing a mini ii-V-I, setting yourself up perfectly to land on the IV as a new temporary tonic for a second, before continuing the progression with a genuine ii-V-I in the stated key.

The 'normal' guitarist's way of doing this, of moving to the IV chord, which you hear in blues all the time, is just to just add a 7 to the D, to get D7 and force the resolution to G. But by going via the minor v chord, it's a much more elegant and luxurious harmony. You hear it in jazz blues all the time - where it would be am9-D(alt)-G9

So, apart from the minor v chords creating a mini ii-V-I, and the Elton John C chord, and the modulation to E major, all the other chords are diatonic and fit the I-ii-iii-IV-V-vi-vii(dim) harmonisation of the major scale, which is why it sounds so natural. It doesn't modulate to f#m phrygian, that's just the iii minor chord from the key of D. Modulation implies that music establishes itself in a new key; the bridge section doesn't do that.

A nice little song - it's fun analysing even a simple song like that and seeing what it's made of.

Right, finally got time to check this out!!
First off, it's written better than the slapdash way I wrote it out so I'll stick to verse, chorus etc in future like you've done.

So Elton John would just "hammer in" a 7th chord to signal a key change?
Sticking with that modulation bit... F#m - G - F#m - Bm (all in F# phyrgian to here) then C - D - E....
The C, D, E really don't "belong" but just "sound cool"?
[I notice the same thing in Panama where the lyrics go "she's blinding..." the chords are D E F G# A and I don't think they "belong" - they're just a "disconnected but nice-sounding" progression?

Why would you want to play a the G (IV) in the verse in place of Dsus4?
Dsus4 = D G A
G = G B D - the 3rd of G doesn't appear in Dsus4 so I don't know why you'd suggest playing the IV?

Well written regarding substituting V7 with Vm to lead to a II-V-I in the IV key! So that's common? I need to learn more common progressions. Or at least keep analysing song after song to see what is most often done. I agree it sounds way nicer than just hammering in a I7 to modulate to IV.

---->> So I never thought about it this way.... all these little II-V-I's don't really modulate the KEY to a new "I" key.... they are just a fancy way of getting to the existing chords in the present key. In terms of soloing, you couldn't play Dmaj all over verses 1 & 2 as that would clash, so you'd have to be smart about it (again I can see how chordal/arp playing is more appropriate for jazz-type progressions). Crikey..
And yeah, it's not really modulated to F# phyrgian. I guess I'm just fitting the mode applicable to that chord, so F#m in key of D Ionian means the F# is phyrgian... but that's not the key, as such. No modulation (until later on).

TBH I'm 100% glad I started this thread as writing down and getting input from others has been very helpful - I tend to get tunnel vision!

Panama:

I get what you're saying, a V7 in natural minor can can go to Im - and you'd play harmonic minor over that (what else? I guess melodic minor depending on the chords - anything else?). But I don't see why you say the B is a B dominant chord... if we're in amaj/Emixo... B isn't the V...? And B7 would indicate a lead to Emaj but that's not what the chorus is in? I might be confused now..!

I wonder if VH "meant" to switch between B dorian and aeolian in the solo! Fun, indeed..

viz · September 2017

You ask some great questions and I'll test my quoting skills to the limit in an attempt to answer some of them, but I hope others chip in because I am definitely NOT an authority on this! I finished my grades in 1983 and have only recently become fascinated in this stuff as an amateur, so please remember this is all home-made thoughts!

thomasross20 said:

Right, finally got time to check this out!!
First off, it's written better than the slapdash way I wrote it out so I'll stick to verse, chorus etc in future like you've done.

Ta! Yep, these convos get really tricky and convoluted, so simplifying / standardising what you're trying to say definitely helps

thomasross20 said:

So Elton John would just "hammer in" a 7th chord to signal a key change?
Sticking with that modulation bit... F#m - G - F#m - Bm (all in F# phyrgian to here) then C - D - E....
The C, D, E really don't "belong" but just "sound cool"?
[I notice the same thing in Panama where the lyrics go "she's blinding..." the chords are D E F G# A and I don't think they "belong" - they're just a "disconnected but nice-sounding" progression?

Well, the Elton John thing is not signalling a key change; it's playing a C chord (which is not diatonic - as the song is in D major it 'should' be a c#dim, but instead you introduce a bVII chord, ie the C) which then typically would progress to the dominant, the A7, which then resolves to the D, which is the tonic. In other words, there is no modulation, just a non-diatonic "flat VII" chord. But in this song, you suddenly realise the C has been used as a bVI, the D has become a bVII and the E becomes the new tonic.

In Panama, that middle 8 is as follows: The key is E, right, and we're talking about the e minor section (ease the seat back etc). Then it's the stabs:

The bass note moves chromatically up from tonic to dominant, ready for the resolution to the tonic E for the chorus. But the chords don't move up chromatically. They go:

E (the tonic)
F (up a semitone; ok so that one IS chromatic)
D first inversion; ie a D chord with an F# on the bottom
G (that has G on the bottom, so it's semitone up from the F#, but it's really a V-I resolution from the previous D(2nd inv). So the bass line is smooth because it's ascending, and the harmonies are smooth because you have a resolution. Then the pattern is repeated: )
E 1st inversion (with G# on the bottom)
A (so another V-I resolution)
F# 1st inversion (so with A# on the bottom)
B_____ (another V-I inversion for 'ain't no stopping nooooooww')

It's a really common progression. Eg it's used at the beginning of Disco Man by The Damned.

thomasross20 said:

Why would you want to play a the G (IV) in the verse in place of Dsus4?
Dsus4 = D G A
G = G B D - the 3rd of G doesn't appear in Dsus4 so I don't know why you'd suggest playing the IV?

Because you have 2 of the same notes, and 2 out of 3 isn't bad. A "sus4" chord just is a slippery IV chord. It resolves back down to the standard major triad by allowing the 4 to slip back down to the 3. So the 4 acts as a IV. You just have to be able to hear it. After all, a D sus4 (which is D G A, or G A D in another inversion), is pretty similar to a G, which is G B D, as you say. It's basically a G sus2!

thomasross20 said:

But I don't see why you say the B is a B dominant chord... if we're in amaj/Emixo... B isn't the V...? And B7 would indicate a lead to Emaj but that's not what the chorus is in? I might be confused now..!

I think you might be wedding "dominant" too tightly to "mixolydian mode".

The Dominant chord (or "V chord") is the chord in 5th position, regardless of whether the key is major, minor, dorian, lydian or anything else. (apart from pieces in locrian, which don't have a dominant).

The word Dominant means that, apart from the tonic (the "I" chord), it's the most important chord in the scale, and gives the most pleasing resolution to the I chord. The V-I progression is called the perfect cadence.

Furthemore, a dominant chord is really properly effective when it has a major 3rd and a minor 7th, so basically a mixolydian scale; or a phrygian dominant; or a "hindu scale" (5th mode of melodic minor); or an "altered scale" or "super locrian" (7th mode of melodic minor). That's because the V's major 3rd resolves up to the tonic, and the V's minor 7th resolves down to the tonic's 3rd. Like a pincer movement.

So regardless of the tonic (whether it's major, minor, phrygian, mixolydian, whatever), it will almost always have a proper V chord; in the case of Panama, that's the B. And it resolves to the E major (remember, Mixolydian IS a major mode - it just has a flat 7, that's all). "V -> I" trumps "mixolydian -> ionian", if you see what I mean.

In fact, in describing harmony, you should primarily talk about the chords - ie I, ii, iii etc - not modal scales.

How's that?

thomasross20 · September 2017

Just to let you know I read it and agree, I'm on my phone and don't have your quoting power so apologies for short reply.. totally appreciate the detailed answer!

Again I'm not sure if VH will have meant all of that in Panama, but who knows!

Ok I get you regarding the dominant chord, I definitely am getting stuck in modal thinking. It's quite a bi-modal song

I never did do my grades but I did read the AB guides to theory, the jazz theory book and others.. but it's one thing reading the stuff in a book then deconstructing a song like this, at least for me. I must learn not to be so rigid!

Thank you!

viz · September 2017

thomasross20 said:

Just to let you know I read it and agree, I'm on my phone and don't have your quoting power so apologies for short reply.. totally appreciate the detailed answer!

Again I'm not sure if VH will have meant all of that in Panama, but who knows!

Ok I get you regarding the dominant chord, I definitely am getting stuck in modal thinking. It's quite a bi-modal song

I never did do my grades but I did read the AB guides to theory, the jazz theory book and others.. but it's one thing reading the stuff in a book then deconstructing a song like this, at least for me. I must learn not to be so rigid!

Thank you!

I guarantee you're right - VH definitely didn't think "then we'll have a D first inversion"!

But what we're doing is decomposing it, not composing it. They will have said, "then we'll go up in stabs, hover, and bam! Chorus!" and because Eddie has a flawless and deep sense of harmony, he just played those beautiful chords, rather than doing what a punk guitarist would have done, which is barre chords rising chromatically. It's second nature for natural musicians. Sure we can pick it apart, study it, immerse ourselves in it and try and learn from it, which is what developing as a musician is about, and that's what you're doing, and that's the right approach.

thomasross20 · September 2017

Have you seen this (especially from 6min or so)?

What is most impressive is how he noodles around with exotic chords and their fingerings and makes it sound so amazing..

AxeInsight · September 2017

My head explodes at the thought that people have your level of knowledge. Blows my mind, I just can't comprehend being there.

@viz See ? I told you you were a knowledgeable guy

thomasross20 · October 2017

I've ordered the "total electric guitar" dvd by Eric Johnson. "Fine art" as opposed to "art of" is also meant to be good but I'll see how it goes with the first one.

thomasross20 · October 2017

I'm only 20 mins into this Eric Johnson DVD that got delivered and I'm like "wow" ... Seriously amazing. The guy is even more of a master than I realised..

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