Boss Katana 100 gig report

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  • VoxmanVoxman Frets: 4718
    ICBM said:
    Voxman said:

    The idea was to get a 100w Katana and if it did the job to then sell my Vox Valvetronix AD120VTX rig. The ridiculous thing is that the AD120VTX is brilliant live; the mix of modelling and valves that are in the power section and the way it changes with volume and reacts with speaker impedance makes it very valve-like. 

    The problem is it's size and weight - 58lbs amp, 14lbs VC12 floor controller plus mini pedal board for fx. I'm now 60 and I just can't carry it anymore up and down stairs and in and out of the car. Hence why I'm now using my Vox Tonelab SE and LE which are good but I love the simplicity and tweakability of the Valvetronix.  I really was hoping the 32lb 1x12 100w Katana might have been the answer. 
    I think I’ve said this before in which case I apologise ;), but you need to find an AD60VTX. I’m not totally sure of the weight but it should be around 40lb I think.

    I’m actually thinking of looking for one since I’ve always loved the Vox sound but can’t be bothered with the weight of an AC30 now...
    The AD60VTX is 43lbs - around the same weight as my AD212 2x12 extn cab. But the 2x12 gives a much fuller, bigger sound. What I should have bought back in 2004 was the AD120VTH or AD60VTH head and cab.  
    I started out with nothing..... but I've still got most of it left (Seasick Steve)
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  • p90fool said:
    It's a weird one tbh, I really like it at home, and I've had a few rehearsals with a country band and a few jams and it's excellent, but I just can't get it to sit right in a rowdy gig.  

    I have a kind of backup plan in a pressure situation with a good valve amp, just turn it up way loud and do it all from the guitar. The tone at any given time might not be exactly what you'd choose, but it'll be musical and playable with a bit of sensitivity and skill. 

    I just cannot get the Katana to do that for some reason, it's totally unpredictable in the way that it can suddenly be very trebley, or certain notes on the fretboard will leap out at you.  

    In fairness to the amp (and I think you are being fair), you are very much a dynamic player - plenty of valve amps would struggle with your use case, and the fact a katana has been seriously considered by yourself is a good indicator of its quality I think. 

    Really enjoyed your review. 

    Yes that sums up what I think as well. It's been really good following this thread and getting a 'real world' gigging perspective.

    Owing to my back problems, I'm going to try one if/(hopefully when) I start gigging again. Even if it doesn't work out, it's not a huge outlay and it can always serve as a backup or practice amp.
    It's not a competition.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    Voxman said:

    The AD60VTX is 43lbs - around the same weight as my AD212 2x12 extn cab. But the 2x12 gives a much fuller, bigger sound. What I should have bought back in 2004 was the AD120VTH or AD60VTH head and cab.  
    If you can find a head you could use that with the cab, but I'm guessing they're very rare - I've certainly never seen one, and I wasn't even aware they did a 60W one. Or get a head box made for the 120 amp section...

    Interestingly I recently had an AD30 - the more recent one with the chrome grille, which are not quite as well-designed - which I acquired with a blown speaker (and power IC, which had taken it out) so I fitted it with a damaged Weber Silver Bell I'd repaired. It sounded brilliant at home volume but sadly quite harsh and ratty when cranked up, so I sold it.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357
    I had the AD120VT and loved it but feck me the power amp section was badly built ..... the soldering was terrible with bad joints everywhere and because the PCB wasn't thick enough or well enough supported the joints used to go again. In the end I lost patience with it and removed the Korg made top part which is very well made, made a simple 78 series regulated power supply for it (from the factory it's fed from  a basic zener diode ) and gig'ed that into a Marshall solidstate power amp before buying a Tonelab SE and a Marshall 2020 valve power amp  ...... that was the sound and that was very portable into a 2 x 12 cab (basically the old box from the AD120VT)
    Then a pint of beer fell into the Tonelab and it was never the same again


    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • SchnozzSchnozz Frets: 1926
    edited December 2017
    I heard a Katana for the first time live the other day and I was disappointed unfortunately

    I like the idea of a smaller rehearsal amp for the garage, but I think I'd rather pay a bit more for a valve amp now.

    Really dislike changing valves...
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  • VoxmanVoxman Frets: 4718
    ICBM said:
    Voxman said:

    The AD60VTX is 43lbs - around the same weight as my AD212 2x12 extn cab. But the 2x12 gives a much fuller, bigger sound. What I should have bought back in 2004 was the AD120VTH or AD60VTH head and cab.  
    If you can find a head you could use that with the cab, but I'm guessing they're very rare - I've certainly never seen one, and I wasn't even aware they did a 60W one. Or get a head box made for the 120 amp section...

    Interestingly I recently had an AD30 - the more recent one with the chrome grille, which are not quite as well-designed - which I acquired with a blown speaker (and power IC, which had taken it out) so I fitted it with a damaged Weber Silver Bell I'd repaired. It sounded brilliant at home volume but sadly quite harsh and ratty when cranked up, so I sold it.
    The chrome Valvetronix weren't the same design - the AD15/AD30 were designed as budget priced home practice amps. The Valvereactor circuit was quite different (no longer reacted to speaker impedance) with minimal voltage running through the valve. Not a problem at home volumes, but when they brought out the AD50VT and AD100VT they just made them louder with no change to the design.  So whereas the 'Blue' amps behaved very much like a valve amp with changing response/dynamics as you cranked the amp, that vital ingredient was lost in all the later Valvetronix.  The 'Blues' were the only Valvetronix specifically designed as a gigging amp.  

    Re heads, yup they did both an AD60VTH (35lbs) and AD120VTH (40lbs) which had improved circuitry to the original AD60/120VT combos - that circuitry was later brought into the replacement AD60/120VTX. A key difference of the VTX combos wasn't just the closed back, birch ply construction, Celestion Neo-dog speakers and 8/16w impedance switch - there was also a revised better built power-section and valve-reactor circuit that was brought over from the heads and 'tuned' for the Celestion 'neo-dog' speakers. The heads only come up for sale very rarely, partly because they were less popular and partly because folks with a good one tend to hold onto them.

    http://www.voxshowroom.com/uk/amp/advth.html

    Danny1969 said:
    I had the AD120VT and loved it but feck me the power amp section was badly built ..... the soldering was terrible with bad joints everywhere and because the PCB wasn't thick enough or well enough supported the joints used to go again. In the end I lost patience with it and removed the Korg made top part which is very well made, made a simple 78 series regulated power supply for it (from the factory it's fed from  a basic zener diode ) and gig'ed that into a Marshall solidstate power amp before buying a Tonelab SE and a Marshall 2020 valve power amp  ...... that was the sound and that was very portable into a 2 x 12 cab (basically the old box from the AD120VT)
    Then a pint of beer fell into the Tonelab and it was never the same again


    Yup, as above the VTX combos had improved power amp sections brought across from the AD60/120VTH heads and the solder joints were of improved quality (it was one of the things Vox picked up on - the AD60/120VT joints tended to go 'dry-solder' and so the solder material used in the heads and VTX was a little better quality).      




    I started out with nothing..... but I've still got most of it left (Seasick Steve)
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  • Ive found the addition of a valve preamp/boost pedal has livened up the sound when i turn up my katana above home practise levels. Only have the 50, but find it adequate for the side project im working on at the moment. Not tried it with the main band yet but i think it could cut it if your not to precious with your sound.... oh and you mic through a decent PA.

    Anyone who has completed the software update can use a 4 channel switch with the 50 now, picked one up as a xmas present and works well.

    http://www.brightonion.co.uk/katana-preset-footswitch/

    The size and weight is a big winner for me at the end of the day
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  • ecc83ecc83 Frets: 1589
    ICBM said:
    Voxman said:

    The AD60VTX is 43lbs - around the same weight as my AD212 2x12 extn cab. But the 2x12 gives a much fuller, bigger sound. What I should have bought back in 2004 was the AD120VTH or AD60VTH head and cab.  
    If you can find a head you could use that with the cab, but I'm guessing they're very rare - I've certainly never seen one, and I wasn't even aware they did a 60W one. Or get a head box made for the 120 amp section...

    Interestingly I recently had an AD30 - the more recent one with the chrome grille, which are not quite as well-designed - which I acquired with a blown speaker (and power IC, which had taken it out) so I fitted it with a damaged Weber Silver Bell I'd repaired. It sounded brilliant at home volume but sadly quite harsh and ratty when cranked up, so I sold it.


    Found a picture of the rear of a head IC. I note it says " 8 Ohm minimum" ! I do hope the amplifiers are totally short circuit proof?

    Dave.

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  • p90foolp90fool Frets: 31368
    Well I think I've reached a kind of working compromise with the Katana after last night's gig.

    After originally scooping the upper mids fairly heavily in Global EQ I decided I was going to have to live with a little Blues Jr-type boxiness if I wanted it to be audible in a mix, so I've reduced the upper mid cut by 4 decibels. 

    I also boosted the overall volume in Global EQ by 10 decibels, giving me vastly more headroom. I had the master at 4 o'clock before, last night I didn't get above 10 o'clock, which is just crazy, why would they starve it of so much power be default?

    So I now have enough power with a kind of usable but boxy lead sound, and a passable but frankly underwhelming rhythm sound, missing that big jangly depth I've always had in the past. 

    I think I'm really now fighting the cabinet rather than the software, despite the inherent flexibility of the EQ it really does have that resonance at high volume of an extremely powerful Blues Jr, albeit with a nice smooth overdrive. 

    I need to make up an adaptor to try it with a 4x12 as I suspect that will solve all my problems, apart from the reason I bought it which was portability. 

    I did have a great lead tone on some songs last night to be fair, and I do need to have a long and delicate conversation with the other guitarist in my band pulling his weight a little more. 

    If it sounds like I'm overthinking this and being too picky you're absolutely right. I'm holding it up to very high standards and trying to get it working exactly how I want it, but in all honesty I think that's fair, given the stir these amps have caused online. 

    I'm not trying to be a dissenting voice because it's a good amp and I genuinely like it, and the two or three players who've tried it at moderately loud volume in my house have all been wowed by it. 
    I'm just pushing it to its limits as a dynamic, musical piece of gear at a very low price - I'm not there yet but it's not far off to be fair. 
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  • An issue I had with it last night was that one of the patches i set up for lead, lots of gain, some delay, which previously had been at a good level in relation to my rhythm patches, just wasnt quite cutting through (at least i felt that) I had to go to the amp and turn up the volume (its a hard life) and save the patch, trickier on the fly than it sounds. This is the first of about 30 gigs ive had to do this apart from earlier ones where i was not that familiar with the amp.
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  • p90foolp90fool Frets: 31368
    Tbh I've never had much success with channel switching with any amp in anything other than a power trio @midlifecrisis , I find the band itself is too variable in volume to have a clue whether I'm going to be too loud or too quiet when I hit that footswitch. 

    At bigger gigs it's fine, and someone else's problem, but when we're self mixing from the stage I always just use one patch plus boost, and a master volume pedal. 
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  • ecc83ecc83 Frets: 1589

    "I need to make up an adaptor to try it with a 4x12 as I suspect that will solve all my problems,"

    p90fool,  4x12s are 16/4 Ohms so is your amp different from the one I found?

    Dave.

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  • JayGeeJayGee Frets: 1254
    p90fool said:

    If it sounds like I'm overthinking this and being too picky you're absolutely right. I'm holding it up to very high standards and trying to get it working exactly how I want it, but in all honesty I think that's fair, given the stir these amps have caused online. 

    I'm not trying to be a dissenting voice because it's a good amp and I genuinely like it, and the two or three players who've tried it at moderately loud volume in my house have all been wowed by it. 
    I'm just pushing it to its limits as a dynamic, musical piece of gear at a very low price - I'm not there yet but it's not far off to be fair. 
    I think it says a lot for a piece of gear at this price point that we’re still having this conversation and I can’t wait to see what the next development will be. Even in the unlikely event Roland/Boss completely lose the plot with Katana MK2 (as and when it turns up) somebody else will come up with a successor and young guitarists on a tight budget (or old guitarists with dodgy backs) will have more choice and sound better than ever...
    Don't ask me, I just play the damned thing...
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  • @p90fool yes tbh i had similar problems with previous amps i used so maybe being a bit critical of the katana. we play pubs and clubs, rarely have a sound guy and only put vocals through PA. last night i felt it more than previosly, i launched into my hamfisted attempt at purple rain guitar solo and the power just wasnt there,  confirmed with a friend in the audience that it wasnt loud enough. I know the katana has got the power to do it but it just wasnt set up right. played the night before in a small pub, amp was set the same but the solo came through stronger
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  • Do you do the ‘ride the guitar volume control’ thing? I found my Katana didn’t respond hugely well to that, as it was my way of giving a bit of extra volume boost on all my other amps for solos etc.
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  • p90foolp90fool Frets: 31368
    Do you do the ‘ride the guitar volume control’ thing? 
    Absolutely incessantly, it's as much a part of playing as plucking and fretting to me. 

    With my Jet City amp here I can use every subtle inflection from the volume control, even bringing up the tail of single notes, but the Katana is just a bit flat in that respect, though it's still better than any other modeller I've used. 



    The Katana sounds pretty similar to this at home, but at gig volume everything just flattens out too much, meaning I need a master volume pedal to put myself in the right place in the mix. 
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  • p90foolp90fool Frets: 31368
    ecc83 said:

    "I need to make up an adaptor to try it with a 4x12 as I suspect that will solve all my problems,"

    p90fool,  4x12s are 16/4 Ohms so is your amp different from the one I found?

    Dave.

    Dave I have a stereo 4x12, 8ohms per side, which will tell me enough about whether it's a speaker cab rather than EQ problem, or maybe just confuse the issue even further! 
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  • monquixotemonquixote Frets: 17485
    tFB Trader
    I'd love a video of the sounds you are getting out of the Katana
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  • ecc83ecc83 Frets: 1589
    p90fool said:
    ecc83 said:

    "I need to make up an adaptor to try it with a 4x12 as I suspect that will solve all my problems,"

    p90fool,  4x12s are 16/4 Ohms so is your amp different from the one I found?

    Dave.

    Dave I have a stereo 4x12, 8ohms per side, which will tell me enough about whether it's a speaker cab rather than EQ problem, or maybe just confuse the issue even further! 


    Okay dokay! I would still like to know about S/C protection?

    Dave.

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  • welshboyowelshboyo Frets: 1808
    p90fool said:
    Do you do the ‘ride the guitar volume control’ thing? 
    Absolutely incessantly, it's as much a part of playing as plucking and fretting to me. 

    With my Jet City amp here I can use every subtle inflection from the volume control, even bringing up the tail of single notes, but the Katana is just a bit flat in that respect, though it's still better than any other modeller I've used. 



    The Katana sounds pretty similar to this at home, but at gig volume everything just flattens out too much, meaning I need a master volume pedal to put myself in the right place in the mix. 
    @p90fool great playing mate wow
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