The state of the NHS and the risks to us all.

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The latest on the NHS crisis this morning is worrying.  Not a week goes by without my local rag carrying a story about someone either dying whilst waiting for an ambulance or having to wait hours outside A&E in an ambulance queue.  This is getting deadly serious now, quite literally.

I was appalled to see the PM claim that the NHS is the best health service in the world yesterday, in flat denial that there is any crisis.  As the ITV reporter said, if it’s so fantastic, why did she try to sack her health minister just two days previously?  Maybe some of Trump’s “alternative facts” ignorance rubbed off on her while she was here holding his hand.

Don’t get ill folks....   now is a really bad time to rely on the NHS to save you.
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  • fields5069fields5069 Frets: 1511
    I had a friend harping on about Push Doctor the other day - the GP app which costs £20 per go. He's a really nice guy but American so for him convenience seems to be everything. I kept my mouth shut, but shit like this app is only making the situation worse.
    Some folks like water, some folks like wine.
    My feedback thread is here.
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  • PC_DavePC_Dave Frets: 1482
    I just can’t understand how and why we accept the ignorance of the Government. The NHS is in a shit state, Ministers say everything is fine, we know it’s not, repeat. 

    What can can be done about it? 
    This week's procrastination forum might be moved to sometime next week.
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  • JalapenoJalapeno Frets: 3408
    wonder how much of the record funding goes on PPI service and interest payments versus frontline care .... ?
    Imagine something sharp and witty here ......

    Feedback
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  • strtdvstrtdv Frets: 1222
    edited January 11
    There are several major problems. 

    One is obviously funding. Despite what they say about efficiency savings (and yes there are issues with the price the NHS pays for some things that should be looked at) the NHS is already one of the most efficient health services in the world. Efficiency savings will be marginal and are just a distraction from the real problem, which is that modern healthcare is expensive and someone has to pay for it. This means taxation, which is unpopular, but sooner or later taxes will need to go up to pay for the rising cost of healthcare.

    The second issue is demand. People are surviving illness that would have previously killed, and are being left with chronic health conditions that require ongoing treatment. As well as this, people's expectations of the treatment they'll get is higher. People expect the latest and best medical, surgical and radiological interventions. These are all very expensive, and the money needs to come from somewhere.

    Thirdly there are some areas in which societal change has increased the pressure on the NHS. People seem to see no reason why you wouldn't go to A&E with your minor ailment or chronic stable condition. People also no longer look after their parents as they get older. Often older folk will be brought into hospital with a minor illness for the rest of the family to then say "we can't cope with them" and they block a hospital bed for weeks at great expense while the family bicker about what they want to do next.

    Basically people either need to be prepared to pay more or lower their expectations.

    I should also add that workforce planning, at least at the medical end, seems to be exceptionally poor. There are currently enough vacant Acute Medicine consultant jobs in Northern Ireland to guarantee a job for people who haven't even started training yet, but they generally only have 1 training post a year. On the other hand, they always offer 2 endocrine and 2 renal training posts when there haven't been consultant posts for the last 5 years or so.
    I'm led to believe that the situation in the rest of the UK is as bad (the year I entered specialty training there were 11 training posts in Acute Medicine between Scotland and Wales, and I think 1 was filled)
    Robot Lords of Tokyo, SMILE TASTE KITTENS!
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  • thomasw88thomasw88 Frets: 751
    Jalapeno said:
    wonder how much of the record funding goes on PPI service and interest payments versus frontline care .... ?
    whilst PPI may indeed be swallowing money,  the govt. knows how much they need to service that payment and as such it should be budgeted for accordingly.

    Out of interest - other countries do use similar methods for funding projects.    Found this article which I thought was quite interesting

    https://pfeyeblog.wordpress.com/2015/05/05/beyond-britain-how-do-other-countries-use-pfi/
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 11587
    Emp_Fab said:
    The latest on the NHS crisis this morning is worrying.  Not a week goes by without my local rag carrying a story about someone either dying whilst waiting for an ambulance or having to wait hours outside A&E in an ambulance queue.  This is getting deadly serious now, quite literally.

    I was appalled to see the PM claim that the NHS is the best health service in the world yesterday, in flat denial that there is any crisis.  As the ITV reporter said, if it’s so fantastic, why did she try to sack her health minister just two days previously?  Maybe some of Trump’s “alternative facts” ignorance rubbed off on her while she was here holding his hand.

    Don’t get ill folks....   now is a really bad time to rely on the NHS to save you.
    If you want to see real comedy, I suggest watching Andrea Leadsom on the NHS when appearing on the Daily Politics this week. 

    We've had a boom in population over the last few years as successive governments have taken great lengths to fuck with the service. From PFI to making sure that party doners who run private sector businesses can cream some money off of the taxpayer, lip service is paid to our health service whilst those same lips talk to private interests. 

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/tamasin-cave/former-health-secretary-andrew-lansley-s-diaries-finally-released-in-nearly-full
    Clarity over quantity.  
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 4659
    edited January 11
    A big issue the NHS has is its own success - science has evolved so much that what are now 'routine operations' would have been death to a patient 50/100 years ago - Coupled with a longer life expectancy, all adds to the growing pressure on the NHS - You can throw left right and centre lack of funding, incompetence, miss management, targets, health trust, PPi + interest and all such issues, plus more, don't help one Iota, but science has also made a big impact on what the NHS can now offer

    Reading a report at the weekend which pointed out that in 1996, a patient with a form of AIDS would have probably died within months of been diagnosed - Today that patient will live, but the cost will be around £300,000 for treatment and drugs for the rest of their life - Just one example of how science ensures we live longer, but at what cost

    I'm not sure there is an answer - but there must be a massive savings to be made by sorting out incompetence - I almost suggest that a 10/20 year plan + dedicated team, needs to be put into place, with cross party talks, that over rides daily politics and the day to day point scoring fights that place between the 2 major parties
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  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 6273
    A big issue the NHS has is its own success - science has evolved so much that what are now 'routine operations' would have been death to a patient 50/100 years ago - Coupled with a longer life expectancy, all adds to the growing pressure on the NHS - You can throw left right and centre lack of funding, incompetence, miss management, targets, health trust, PPi + interest and all such issues, plus more, don't help one Iota, but science has also made a big impact on what the NHS can now offer

    Reading a report at the weekend which pointed out that in 1996, a patient with a form of AIDS would have probably died within months of been diagnosed - Today that patient will live, but the cost will be around £300,000 for treatment and drugs for the rest of their life - Just one example of how science ensures we live longer, but at what cost

    I'm not sure there is an answer - but there must be a massive savings to be made by sorting out incompetence - I almost suggest that a 10/20 year plan + dedicated team, needs to be put into place, with cross party talks, that over rides daily politics and the day to day point scoring fights that place between the 2 major parties
    I may be reading between the lines a bit here. but I believe you are saying we should be culling the weak and the slow, doing a bit of the old evolution in action. Sounds good to me, been getting a bit jaded cleansing the streets of filth and depravity, so could do with a new calling. 

    I'm not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me.

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  • DarnWeightDarnWeight Frets: 885
    edited January 11
    Heartfeltdawn said:

    If you want to see real comedy, I suggest watching Andrea Leadsom on the NHS when appearing on the Daily Politics this week. 

    We've had a boom in population over the last few years as successive governments have taken great lengths to fuck with the service. From PFI to making sure that party doners who run private sector businesses can cream some money off of the taxpayer, lip service is paid to our health service whilst those same lips talk to private interests. 

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/tamasin-cave/former-health-secretary-andrew-lansley-s-diaries-finally-released-in-nearly-full

    Here's a good one that may have passed a few people by during the reshuffle.  Until silver-tongued Jeremy Hunt managed to lickspittle himself back into his current job earlier this week, Anne Milton MP, a former district nurse, was being widely touted as his replacement.  Turns out, on the morning of the reshuffle, she (or someone with the necessary editing permissions) was busy changing her wiki entry, from a PC within Parliament, to try and hide the fact that her husband is a reasonably big player for Virgin Care...that's the Virgin Care that recently sued the NHS.  It's subsequently been edited back, but my my, that is shady as fuck.

    https://politicalscrapbook.net/2018/01/anne-miltons-wikipedia-page-edited-from-parliament-to-change-details-of-her-husbands-link-to-virgin-care/
    New fangled trading feedback link right here!
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 4659
    VimFuego said:
    A big issue the NHS has is its own success - science has evolved so much that what are now 'routine operations' would have been death to a patient 50/100 years ago - Coupled with a longer life expectancy, all adds to the growing pressure on the NHS - You can throw left right and centre lack of funding, incompetence, miss management, targets, health trust, PPi + interest and all such issues, plus more, don't help one Iota, but science has also made a big impact on what the NHS can now offer

    Reading a report at the weekend which pointed out that in 1996, a patient with a form of AIDS would have probably died within months of been diagnosed - Today that patient will live, but the cost will be around £300,000 for treatment and drugs for the rest of their life - Just one example of how science ensures we live longer, but at what cost

    I'm not sure there is an answer - but there must be a massive savings to be made by sorting out incompetence - I almost suggest that a 10/20 year plan + dedicated team, needs to be put into place, with cross party talks, that over rides daily politics and the day to day point scoring fights that place between the 2 major parties
    I may be reading between the lines a bit here. but I believe you are saying we should be culling the weak and the slow, doing a bit of the old evolution in action. Sounds good to me, been getting a bit jaded cleansing the streets of filth and depravity, so could do with a new calling. 
    I wasn't actually - many will consider such options - That is why I suggested that I'm not sure what the answer is - I was just hi lighting the issues of science within the NHS
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 11587
    Heartfeltdawn said:

    If you want to see real comedy, I suggest watching Andrea Leadsom on the NHS when appearing on the Daily Politics this week. 

    We've had a boom in population over the last few years as successive governments have taken great lengths to fuck with the service. From PFI to making sure that party doners who run private sector businesses can cream some money off of the taxpayer, lip service is paid to our health service whilst those same lips talk to private interests. 

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/tamasin-cave/former-health-secretary-andrew-lansley-s-diaries-finally-released-in-nearly-full

    Here's a good one that may have passed a few people by during the reshuffle.  Until silver-tongued Jeremy Hunt managed to lickspittle himself back into his current job earlier this week, Anne Milton MP, a former district nurse, was being widely touted as his replacement.  Turns out, on the morning of the reshuffle, she (or someone with the necessary editing permissions) was busy changing her wiki entry, from a PC within Parliament, to try and hide the fact that her husband is a reasonably big player for Virgin Care...that's the Virgin Care that recently sued the NHS.  It's subsequently been edited back, but my my, that is shady as fuck.

    https://politicalscrapbook.net/2018/01/anne-miltons-wikipedia-page-edited-from-parliament-to-change-details-of-her-husbands-link-to-virgin-care/
    I did catch that one. It's no surprise at all. That coupled with the Toby Young-eugenics story so brilliantly reported by the London Student and featured in Private Eye this week shows politicking in full effect. Politics goes so far beyond Westminster and MPs. 
    Clarity over quantity.  
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 17246
    Heartfeltdawn said:

    If you want to see real comedy, I suggest watching Andrea Leadsom on the NHS when appearing on the Daily Politics this week. 

    We've had a boom in population over the last few years as successive governments have taken great lengths to fuck with the service. From PFI to making sure that party doners who run private sector businesses can cream some money off of the taxpayer, lip service is paid to our health service whilst those same lips talk to private interests. 

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/tamasin-cave/former-health-secretary-andrew-lansley-s-diaries-finally-released-in-nearly-full

    Here's a good one that may have passed a few people by during the reshuffle.  Until silver-tongued Jeremy Hunt managed to lickspittle himself back into his current job earlier this week, Anne Milton MP, a former district nurse, was being widely touted as his replacement.  Turns out, on the morning of the reshuffle, she (or someone with the necessary editing permissions) was busy changing her wiki entry, from a PC within Parliament, to try and hide the fact that her husband is a reasonably big player for Virgin Care...that's the Virgin Care that recently sued the NHS.  It's subsequently been edited back, but my my, that is shady as fuck.

    https://politicalscrapbook.net/2018/01/anne-miltons-wikipedia-page-edited-from-parliament-to-change-details-of-her-husbands-link-to-virgin-care/
    I did catch that one. It's no surprise at all. That coupled with the Toby Young-eugenics story so brilliantly reported by the London Student and featured in Private Eye this week shows politicking in full effect. Politics goes so far beyond Westminster and MPs. 
    That's always been an issue with the Tories - a conflict of interests. Who was the Tory minister with links to the tobacco industry? He blocked sanctions against cigarettes.
    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 17246
    thomasw88 said:
    Jalapeno said:
    wonder how much of the record funding goes on PPI service and interest payments versus frontline care .... ?
    whilst PPI may indeed be swallowing money,  the govt. knows how much they need to service that payment and as such it should be budgeted for accordingly.


    The government does meet them. It gave the NHS extra funds. Ongoing annual costs are about 2% of the NHS budget, or £1 in every £55 and cost the NHS about about £2 billion a year - the upside is the NHS gets use of new hospitals and equipment now. The problem is the overall cost over the life of PFI means the costs could be as high as £300 billion. Not good value for money.
    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 17246
    edited January 11
    Jalapeno said:
    wonder how much of the record funding goes on PPI service and interest payments versus frontline care .... ?
    Bugger all actually. PFI is 2% of the NHS budget and at the moment is covered by extra government funds - £2 billion a year. It's a red herring. The NHS also has the benefit of the new buildings and equipment that PFI was able to fund.
    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 17246
    One thing worth pointing out is the NHS is currently facing two epidemics - norovirus and Aussie flu. It's at breaking point - I've no idea what you do as you can't magic up more resources from thin air.  On the staff side could the NHS call on resources from the armed services? Could retired health professionals be paid to lend a hand? May and co don't seem to have an emergency plan.

    However, this is not a UK problem. In 2015 the French health system almost collapsed due to a flu outbreak - thousands of people were left in ambulances and stretchers waiting for a bed. Sound familiar. However, the French had an emergency plan - we don't seem to have one. And last year German hospitals were closed due to a flu outbreak.

    Health systems all over Europe are under strain due to an ageing population with health problems and new treatments.


    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 4659
    Fretwired said:

    Here's a good one that may have passed a few people by during the reshuffle.  Until silver-tongued Jeremy Hunt managed to lickspittle himself back into his current job earlier this week, Anne Milton MP, a former district nurse, was being widely touted as his replacement.  Turns out, on the morning of the reshuffle, she (or someone with the necessary editing permissions) was busy changing her wiki entry, from a PC within Parliament, to try and hide the fact that her husband is a reasonably big player for Virgin Care...that's the Virgin Care that recently sued the NHS.  It's subsequently been edited back, but my my, that is shady as fuck.

    https://politicalscrapbook.net/2018/01/anne-miltons-wikipedia-page-edited-from-parliament-to-change-details-of-her-husbands-link-to-virgin-care/
    I did catch that one. It's no surprise at all. That coupled with the Toby Young-eugenics story so brilliantly reported by the London Student and featured in Private Eye this week shows politicking in full effect. Politics goes so far beyond Westminster and MPs. 
    That's always been an issue with the Tories - a conflict of interests. Who was the Tory minister with links to the tobacco industry? He blocked sanctions against cigarettes.
    likewise - https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/jan/29/alan-milburn-labour-health-secretary-am-strategy-private-healthcare

    needs updating but shows how the system works for our MP's 
    http://socialinvestigations.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/over-70-mps-connected-to-companies.html
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 4659
    Fretwired said:
    Heartfeltdawn said:

    If you want to see real comedy, I suggest watching Andrea Leadsom on the NHS when appearing on the Daily Politics this week. 

    We've had a boom in population over the last few years as successive governments have taken great lengths to fuck with the service. From PFI to making sure that party doners who run private sector businesses can cream some money off of the taxpayer, lip service is paid to our health service whilst those same lips talk to private interests. 

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/tamasin-cave/former-health-secretary-andrew-lansley-s-diaries-finally-released-in-nearly-full

    Here's a good one that may have passed a few people by during the reshuffle.  Until silver-tongued Jeremy Hunt managed to lickspittle himself back into his current job earlier this week, Anne Milton MP, a former district nurse, was being widely touted as his replacement.  Turns out, on the morning of the reshuffle, she (or someone with the necessary editing permissions) was busy changing her wiki entry, from a PC within Parliament, to try and hide the fact that her husband is a reasonably big player for Virgin Care...that's the Virgin Care that recently sued the NHS.  It's subsequently been edited back, but my my, that is shady as fuck.

    https://politicalscrapbook.net/2018/01/anne-miltons-wikipedia-page-edited-from-parliament-to-change-details-of-her-husbands-link-to-virgin-care/
    I did catch that one. It's no surprise at all. That coupled with the Toby Young-eugenics story so brilliantly reported by the London Student and featured in Private Eye this week shows politicking in full effect. Politics goes so far beyond Westminster and MPs. 
    That's always been an issue with the Tories - a conflict of interests. Who was the Tory minister with links to the tobacco industry? He blocked sanctions against cigarettes.
    another one - a tour of google and such links are common  -  

     http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/6989408/Andrew-Lansley-bankrolled-by-private-healthcare-provider.html

    that is why earlier I suggested  a 10/20 year plan + dedicated team, needs to be put into place, with cross party talks, that over rides daily politics and the day to day point scoring fights that place between the 2 major parties - I'd add to that no MP in such discussions is to have any conflict of interest 
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  • randellarandella Frets: 1867
    Cross-party consensus on a 20-year plan.  Stop fucking about with it for political gain.

    It's the worst catch-22 really - there's no other plan that will work, but that plan will never, ever, ever happen.
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 11587

    another one - a tour of google and such links are common  -  

     http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/6989408/Andrew-Lansley-bankrolled-by-private-healthcare-provider.html

    that is why earlier I suggested  a 10/20 year plan + dedicated team, needs to be put into place, with cross party talks, that over rides daily politics and the day to day point scoring fights that place between the 2 major parties - I'd add to that no MP in such discussions is to have any conflict of interest 
    @guitars4you I'd recommend a read of this article published yesterday regarding Lansley's diaries. 

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/tamasin-cave/former-health-secretary-andrew-lansley-s-diaries-finally-released-in-nearly-full


    Clarity over quantity.  
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 17246

    another one - a tour of google and such links are common  -  

     http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/6989408/Andrew-Lansley-bankrolled-by-private-healthcare-provider.html

    that is why earlier I suggested  a 10/20 year plan + dedicated team, needs to be put into place, with cross party talks, that over rides daily politics and the day to day point scoring fights that place between the 2 major parties - I'd add to that no MP in such discussions is to have any conflict of interest 
    @guitars4you I'd recommend a read of this article published yesterday regarding Lansley's diaries. 

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/tamasin-cave/former-health-secretary-andrew-lansley-s-diaries-finally-released-in-nearly-full


    Very interesting - lobbying by big business. We will always have this whilst MPs and political parties depend on large donations for funds. If Virgin Healthcare donates money to the Tory Party then the company will want something in return .. quid pro quo. That's why I think parties should be funded out of the public purse, and every lobbying meeting should be recorded and made available in the public domain. We need total transparency.
    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 4659
    Fretwired said:

    another one - a tour of google and such links are common  -  

     http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/6989408/Andrew-Lansley-bankrolled-by-private-healthcare-provider.html

    that is why earlier I suggested  a 10/20 year plan + dedicated team, needs to be put into place, with cross party talks, that over rides daily politics and the day to day point scoring fights that place between the 2 major parties - I'd add to that no MP in such discussions is to have any conflict of interest 
    @guitars4you I'd recommend a read of this article published yesterday regarding Lansley's diaries. 

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/tamasin-cave/former-health-secretary-andrew-lansley-s-diaries-finally-released-in-nearly-full


    Very interesting - lobbying by big business. We will always have this whilst MPs and political parties depend on large donations for funds. If Virgin Healthcare donates money to the Tory Party then the company will want something in return .. quid pro quo. That's why I think parties should be funded out of the public purse, and every lobbying meeting should be recorded and made available in the public domain. We need total transparency.
    yes very interesting so thanks for that @Heartfeltdawn ;

    Lobbying has become big business - it has been there almost since the birth of democracy, but is now epidemic with specialist firms looking after the interest of large corporations - It begs the question of who do the MP's, House of Lords, Whitehall etc work for - We know the answer of course - See how many MP's have either come from such connections or leave to go there - Further points and discussion will only lead us away from the point of this OP
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  • GarthyGarthy Frets: 2003
    randella said:
    Cross-party consensus on a 20-year plan.  Stop fucking about with it for political gain.

    It's the worst catch-22 really - there's no other plan that will work, but that plan will never, ever, ever happen.
    Agreed, but no party will ever say "we propose a cross party plan" because the opposition (of whatever colour) would crucify them for needing to seek help and assistance and say that the Government cannot manage the job so they should be voted out. While health/NHS is a political football (and perhaps political plutonium) it will never happen.

    The other thing is the NHS paying obscene amounts for over the counter medicine like paracetamol. £8 per pack of 16 tablets that can be bought in a supermarket for £1.50. GPs should not be prescribing such cheap, widely available drugs but the same old faces would be shouting about how unfair it would be for 'the poor' to pay a kings ransom of £1.50 for headache tablets.

    Other weird shit- my wife has to have a hearing aid check-up every 12 months in a hospital, the waiting room is full -30/40 people at each visit to see a doctor then a techie, this is for stuff that a nurse & a techie could do at a clinic or community centre. On a related note, my nan has to have a blood test once a month, again in a hospital and then a subsequent separate visit for a consultant to tell her she is OK, again. Then the following week she'll go for another test, then two days later another consultant informs her there is no change. There's a few other tests and results but to cut a long story short she has 12 hospital visits a month for overlapping consultants & results. When we pointed out this madness that a) all the results could be given over the phone, by letter or even email we were looked at like we were asking for the moon on a stick. We pointed out that three of the blood tests could be drawn at the same time by the same nurse on the same day but no, for whatever condescending reason that's not possible, see you tomorrow Mr Smith. I'm one person with two examples I'm willing to share, there's a few other anecdotes that I'm not, now let's assume that every person has two anecdotes of similar fuckwitery, that's a hell of a lot wasted time and money when all added up.

    I don't know what the answer is, I won't pretend that I do, the trouble is neither does anybody else. If the NHS were given a trillion pounds or two trillion pounds I am not convinced things would improve but I bet they'd spend the lot and still plead poverty.
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 17246
    Garthy said:
    randella said:
    Cross-party consensus on a 20-year plan.  Stop fucking about with it for political gain.

    It's the worst catch-22 really - there's no other plan that will work, but that plan will never, ever, ever happen.
    Agreed, but no party will ever say "we propose a cross party plan" because the opposition (of whatever colour) would crucify them for needing to seek help and assistance and say that the Government cannot manage the job so they should be voted out. While health/NHS is a political football (and perhaps political plutonium) it will never happen.


    True. For the left the NHS is like Thor's hammer - it is a weapon they can weild to smash the Tories. For their part the Tories are tainted by their links to private health providers and their language of cost-effective, more efficiently, private-public service provision backfires as people see it as cuts and doing more with less as well as opening the door to privatisation.
    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 13508
    Political discussions aside for a moment, I seriously worry about what might happen if you, me, or any of our loved ones need emergency care at the current time.  The odds are that you are going to be in for an awful experience with clinical care bordering on emergency triaging and waiting in an ambulance for hours.

    The final time mum went into hospital, I was waiting in the ambulance with her for two hours - outside A&E.  The last time I was in an ambulance, with a history of a previous heart attack and now presenting with chest pain - I called the ambulance at 9:15pm and I didn't get seen by a doctor in A&E until 3:15am the following morning.

    That was then.

    It's worse now.
    Birds are meant to fly free...  Open every cage you see.

    https://www.peta.org/about-peta/why-peta/caged-birds/
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  • jackiojackio Frets: 70
    I used to work in this area. 

    4 questions every patient/relative/carer needs to ask every day:

    1) What is wrong with me and what are you doing about it?
    2) What is happening to me today?
    3) What do I need to be able to do to go home?
    4) On what day and at what time am I going home?

    Write it down (along with every medication you are prescribed including ones you don't take because they make you ill and how they make you ill so you don't get prescribed them in hospital) and tell everyone you meet. The NHS is good, but has massive variation in how clinical teams work. Take your own care of these inefficiencies and insist you are told the answer to the 4 qns above.

    If you, your neighbours, your relatives, your friends can go home at 5pm vs 9am the next day, at 11am instead of 4pm, at 10.45am instead of 12.30pm, the NHS will cope better and people will live who might otherwise have been harmed by waiting.

    Write the 4 qns down. Share them. 

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  • capo4thcapo4th Frets: 3194
    Someone dies in a hospital everyday.
     It makes the news this week.
    Sorry to be blunt but if the NHS didn’t waste so much money it would be in a much better state.

    7 hours to discharge a relative yesterday too many people not talking to each other he said she said.
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 11587
    capo4th said:
    Someone dies in a hospital everyday.
     It makes the news this week.
    Sorry to be blunt but if the NHS didn’t waste so much money it would be in a much better state.


    With that sort of insightful nuanced argument, I'm shocked that you didn't get promoted to Health Secretary in this week's Cabinet reshuffle.

    Clarity over quantity.  
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  • capo4thcapo4th Frets: 3194
    capo4th said:
    Someone dies in a hospital everyday.
     It makes the news this week.
    Sorry to be blunt but if the NHS didn’t waste so much money it would be in a much better state.


    With that sort of insightful nuanced argument, I'm shocked that you didn't get promoted to Health Secretary in this week's Cabinet reshuffle.

    I would ask the NHS why they make managers redundant to avoid gold plated pension payments but then rehire them as consultants / contractors on a higher wage than what they were receiving before redundancy.

    The NHS is awash with money they waste millions on management and poor procurement.

    The entire system is a gravy train being milked by many.  

    Send me an outlook with an interview date.
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 11587
    If it's cheaper in the long run to make them redundant now thus avoiding pension payouts in the future, then that isn't an entirely bad policy. However it is more indicative of poor staff planning. The movement of managers via NHS Improvement can easily be described as a waste of time and ability. Amusingly one of the directors of NHS Improvement is Dame Glynis Breakwell. You've likely heard about her recently thanks to her whacking great salary as Vice-Chancellor of the University of Bath. 

    So what you say about waste and poor management and resources... yes, it's true. But you don't seem to get the idea that the NHS is like this because there have been successive governments who want it to be like this. A successful well-run efficient state-owned service is far harder to pass off to the general public as something that is ready to be privatised. Something that is ragged and stressed is a far easier sell to the average punter. 

    So I wouldn't say it's being milked. Instead it's getting ready to be milked, cut up, and given to the highest bidder. 

    Clarity over quantity.  
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  • Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 13508
    ...and in the meantime, if a few thousand peasants die as a result, it's a small price to pay.
    Birds are meant to fly free...  Open every cage you see.

    https://www.peta.org/about-peta/why-peta/caged-birds/
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