Oh dear, I think I want to collect vinyl....

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  • JAYJOJAYJO Frets: 1526
    edited January 2018
    @darthed1981    No I wasn't arguing the sonic benefits of vinyl or CD, just that if you don't own the physical storage medium you are at the mercy of someone else for access to it. For all I know if you've got enough bandwidth you could stream FLAC and get it at higher quality than CD, but it's no good if your internet connection goes down.
    My files playing now without internet connection though im not streaming ive downloaded. So i will just piss off then sorry.
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  • BRISTOL86BRISTOL86 Frets: 1920
    I’ve not physically owned any music now
    - other than about 4 vinyls which have never been played - for about 5 years and I’ve never not been able to play it.

    Streaming is just such a convenient solution. I haven't seen any stats but I’m guessing in the last few years - aside from the resurgence of vinyl - physical music sales have gone through the floor ?
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  • darthed1981darthed1981 Frets: 11670
    BRISTOL86 said:
    I’ve not physically owned any music now
    - other than about 4 vinyls which have never been played - for about 5 years and I’ve never not been able to play it.

    Streaming is just such a convenient solution. I haven't seen any stats but I’m guessing in the last few years - aside from the resurgence of vinyl - physical music sales have gone through the floor ?
    Yes, basically.

    Vinyl is also re-surging from "bugger all", so does not compare in sales to the "sales" figures of streaming.

    This is arguably why someone like Tay Tay makes a big fuss about avoiding streaming, so everyone buys her CDs (and Vinyl) when she is making her big fuss, then she gets another massive boost when she does launch onto streaming.

    It's all business really, the amazing thing about Vinyl is it has got people paying £20+ for albums again, which is delicious for the music industry, especially since so much of it is catalogue.
    We have to be so very careful, what we believe in...
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  • boogiemanboogieman Frets: 12314
    I’m thinking of heading in the other direction and putting all my vinyl into digital files and then offloading it while the prices are good. I like the look of album sleeves and how tactile they are, but I can’t remember the last time I played my vinyl. 
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  • duotoneduotone Frets: 971
    viz said:
    RobDavies said:
    I’d say no.  

    I’ve spent 500 quid on a Rega turntable and cartridge and for me, it doesn’t touch a CD player costing half that (using the same amp, speakers and cables). 

    Maybe I need to spend more? I won’t be doing so, but ultimately I’m disappointed. 
    It’s a difficult comparison. At 500 quid you won’t get something that “matches” CD. In fact you will never match CD. The sounds of the two formats diverge and go down different paths. At £500 that divergence will already be noticeable, the records will sound warmer and smoother and the CDs will sound crisper and brighter and more precise. But the record will probably still sound a bit boxy even with a planar 3. It’s not until 2-3k that the record player will really show what the record is capable of, which is incredible responsiveness, depth and range, realism, separation and unclutteredness (is that a word)

    for 500-700 quid I’d get a 3-400 quid rega P3 or equivalent, a 200 quid denon mc cartridge - I think they’re called 102R or something, an mc phono stage from pro-jekt or cambridge or similar, and use the amp and speakers you have. Compare that to a 500 quid CD player - that’ll fare quite well. It won’t be perfect and the CD player will still outperform in some criteria, but some of the above inherent benefits of vinyl will shine through enough and you will at least enjoy the listen. 

    Edit - oh, and some Art du Son solution and a trackmate windy-roundy-thing. 
    Damn! Think that’s enough to put most people off.  Out of interest what models are you referring to? Rega/Clearaudio?
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  • Si_Si_ Frets: 384
    I'm a vinyl person.. Like most people I've got GBs of MP3s, but there is just something better about hearing the raw vinyl recordings. Generally the dynamics are so much better than the MP3 equivalent. A properly setup record player is (IMHO) much warmer and cleaner sounding than any digital source. 

    I disagree about the 2-3k price range being where it's at, that's not true, with a well setup P3 you'll get 99% of the same experience. 

    Also, don't discount vintage 70-80s players, most of them are fantastic value for money. 

    I'm currently using a Thorens TD160 (Slightly upgraded) playing through a Technics SU-7300 Amp and it sounds great.
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  • vizviz Frets: 10644
    edited January 2018
    duotone said:
    viz said:
    RobDavies said:
    I’d say no.  

    I’ve spent 500 quid on a Rega turntable and cartridge and for me, it doesn’t touch a CD player costing half that (using the same amp, speakers and cables). 

    Maybe I need to spend more? I won’t be doing so, but ultimately I’m disappointed. 
    It’s a difficult comparison. At 500 quid you won’t get something that “matches” CD. In fact you will never match CD. The sounds of the two formats diverge and go down different paths. At £500 that divergence will already be noticeable, the records will sound warmer and smoother and the CDs will sound crisper and brighter and more precise. But the record will probably still sound a bit boxy even with a planar 3. It’s not until 2-3k that the record player will really show what the record is capable of, which is incredible responsiveness, depth and range, realism, separation and unclutteredness (is that a word)

    for 500-700 quid I’d get a 3-400 quid rega P3 or equivalent, a 200 quid denon mc cartridge - I think they’re called 102R or something, an mc phono stage from pro-jekt or cambridge or similar, and use the amp and speakers you have. Compare that to a 500 quid CD player - that’ll fare quite well. It won’t be perfect and the CD player will still outperform in some criteria, but some of the above inherent benefits of vinyl will shine through enough and you will at least enjoy the listen. 

    Edit - oh, and some Art du Son solution and a trackmate windy-roundy-thing. 
    Damn! Think that’s enough to put most people off.  Out of interest what models are you referring to? Rega/Clearaudio?
    For 500-700 I’d get these:
    http://www.emporiumhifi.com/head-office-norfolk-suffolk/rega-planar-3-turntable-with-rb300-arm/

    http://www.emporiumhifi.com/pre-owned/hart-audio-lindley-hood-mm-mc-phonostage-with-psu/

    https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRAND-NEW-DENON-DL-103R-EQUAL-L-R-CHANNEL-MOVING-COIL-MC-PHONO-CARTRIDGE/111615584616?epid=1034756602&hash=item19fccea968:g:0KcAAOxyEqNTmH55

    See if Emporium will do a deal on the deck and preamp (the deck used to be mine - it’s amazing), and you’re off. Ok that’s 800 not 500 but it’s very good. 


    For 3k or slightly more, I’d go for a bottom-of-the-range Kuzma deck, with Kuzma’s own tonearm or a ‘cheap’ SME arm or similar, and a Koetsu black cartridge, plus a £500 MC preamp. That’d take you from 70% to 90% sound quality. Or you could blow 10k with the top of the range versions of the above - a Kuzma reference, an SME V and a Koetsu Onyx or something. That’d take you to 95%. 99% costs 40k ...
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • BRISTOL86BRISTOL86 Frets: 1920
    Just found out that IKEA have stopped selling the frames I’ve used for my 3 records on the wall (it was called GLADSAX). 

    They were only about £5 each and absolutely perfect for...well, framing a record !

    They now sell for upwards of £25 a piece on eBay(!) how utterly ridiculous. 

    So now if I ever want more than 3 on the wall I have to find a new range of frames. Anyone else frame vinyl on the wall that can recommend a suitable frame?
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  • beed84beed84 Frets: 2403
    I often find myself in an "oh dear" situation with vinyl. Although fun and rewarding, it's an expensive hobby collecting records, most of which I already have on CD.

    Personally, I've not been able to listen to my LPs for over a year due to living arrangements, and not once have I pined to do so. Every now and then I flirt with the idea of selling them, but I have the feeling I'd regret if I did. At the moment they're just sat on a shelf doing nothing.

    They're a nice thing to have, but I'm yet to be convinced that they're the best format in terms of sound quality. It might be controversial to some, but I'm quite partial to digital offerings. To my ear it sounds good. A lot cheaper too.
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  • darthed1981darthed1981 Frets: 11670
    beed84 said:
    They're a nice thing to have, but I'm yet to be convinced that they're the best format in terms of sound quality. It might be controversial to some, but I'm quite partial to digital offerings. To my ear it sounds good. A lot cheaper too.
    Even as a Vinyl fan, I'd never argue Vinyl is better than CD, it isn't, it's different.  It is why I find the concept you need to spend thousands and thousands a bit daft, you can get 99% of the way there for 10k...  that i more than a lot of people spend on a car, we are talking (mostly) about popular music here, it is supposed to be for everyone.

    Vinyl gives you big packages made out of nice soft coated board, with nice shiny platters that you have to handle with care and an amount of love or you mess them up.  This makes your music physically feel more valuable, so it is more in tune with what your emotional attachment to that music is like.

    The recent resurgence of Vinyl is the above combined with a certain rejection of the totally physical and ownership free world of digital streaming, which alongside you tube is taking over music consumption for kids.

    CD, apart from the horror of the jewel case, remains technically damn near perfect for storage and reproduction of sounds we can actually hear, though some hi-fi enthusiasts maintain there are "harmonics" caused by sound outside our hearing range bouncing around and becoming modulated to become audible.  This to me is like the following: -

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGf0AHky0Os

    Also you are unlikely to miss them even if there is truth in it.... but hi-res audio is for you if you believe in it all... unless you feel the way it is encoded actually makes it worse, which you can find a convincing case for online.

    Streaming quality is extremely good as well, very few, although some, can detect the difference between the 320kbps OGG files used by Spotify, for example, and CD.  MP3 at high bitrates is just fine, and in fact above 192kbps will be transparent for most people in most environments.  Apple's AAC at anything over 128kbps is also very good...
    We have to be so very careful, what we believe in...
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