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Quincy Jones on the Beatles

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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 24601
    I'm not a Beatles fan but I suspect they have sold more records than Quincy .. not bad for 'incompetent musicians' .. they were good at what they did which was writing and recording their own songs. They could always turn to a mate like Clapton if they wanted a flashy guitar solo or some brass.

    Quincy also slagged off Michael Jackson which wasn't the brightest thing to do - accused him of pinching other people's songs. The Beatles and Jackson have millions of followers on social media who are currently giving Quincy hell.



    Remember, it's easier to criticise than create!
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  • JezWyndJezWynd Frets: 6021
    He got one thing right -

    Trump.... He’s a fucking idiot.
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  • The question was about first impressions, there's no follow up question to which he might have been more positive. Despite his general grumpiness in the interview he is capable of being positive about some things ( like Ed Sheeran) but it's generally done to get some controversial views out of a grumpy old man. 

    And although it's not explored at length in the interview he is of a generation that saw the ideas of a lot of black musicians sold to the public by white faces and credit and money given in the wrong places. The Beatles, to some extent anyway, were a part of that. 

    Neill said:
    Bezzer said:

    This stiff always makes me laugh ... and this isn't aimed at anyone in this thread I don't believe ... that there's is an awful lot of musician slagging on this forum (and in general to be honest) but as soon as it's pointed at the Beatles the speaker is an idiot.

    FWIW, I can't stand the Beatles and George aside (I love nearly everything he did after) I don't think they were very competent performers ... sorry. But doesn't mean they didn't write good songs, they just aren't to my taste.  But I suspect there was a hell of a lot of studio polishing ... and they couldn't be heard live anyway so ...

    No, sorry you have that completely wrong.  When the Beatles came back from Hamburg spending days and nights gigging they were a very competent tight unit. There's loads of youtube footage of them playing live and when you consider how crude the recording techniques were back then it still stands up very well.  

    Some years ago there was a documentary where they produced some footage of a live performance of "Ticket to Ride" and switched between the disc recording and the live version.  As they say on "I'm Sorry I haven't a Clue" there wasn't a gnat's crotchet between the two.  All those Ringo bashers out there - how many drummers do you know who can exactly reproduce a recording without a click track? 
    I can do a reasonable Ticket to Ride, Quincy was used to working with top jazz musicians so from his perspective  that's not really in the same ballpark. 
    Tipton is a small fishing village in the borough of Sandwell. 
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  • axisus said:
    Teetonetal said: but as individuals they are not particularly competent musicians. 
    Utter bullsh*t statement. I assume you know what competent means? 


    Yes, I know exactly what competent means and I'm also not questioning that over time they improved immensely, But let's get real the Beatles wrote very, very simple music (less so as they went on, granted), there is nothing remotely challenging about what they are playing (nothing wrong with that either) but in terms of being musicians, I don't hold them in high regard.

    Do you know the difference between a musician and a song writer?

    ICBM said:
    Some very technically competent musicians seem to have a problem understanding why technical competence is not the most important characteristic of great music.

    He’s also completely wrong.

    What is the most important characteristic of great music? 
    It doesn't matter, but it's *not* technical competence.

    It's also possible to be a perfectly good songwriter, but a very poor musician (Dylan and Neil Young spring to mind)
    Make that "technically poor" and I agree.
    Just as possible to be a technically great musician with nothing to say.
    Agree with this.

    In terms of musicianship the Beatles were not up there I don't think it very easy to argue against that.

    They wrote some songs, got popular, developed along the way, but as individuals they are not particularly competent musicians. 

    Utter bollocks.

    You are confusing technical competence with musicianship.

    R.


    I don't think you know what musicianship means.

    I would have thought technical competence a reasonable chunk of musicianship, with the other parts made up of knowledge, feel and sensitivity. The Beatles were songwriters who got very lucky, they are nothing special, they wrote some catchy pop tunes, but honestly, like a lot of the pop/rock world are journeyman musicians whose popularity elevates their status.
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  • Good publicity for the article... say something controversial and get attention that wouldn't have been there otherwise - just like Jeremy Vine's career on Radio 2. "Fat people... should we burn them? Call me on 0101 humpty-dumpty 2"
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  • Its true the Beatles were shit. Also Bruce Lee punched like a girl, and Monet used to paint by numbers. So there I'm right, its just the rest of the world who are wrong.

    Ed Conway & The Unlawful Men - Alt Prog Folk: The FaceBook and The SoundCloud

     'Rope Or A Ladder', 'Don't Sing Love Songs', and 'Poke The Frog'  albums available now - see FaceBook page for details

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  • proggyproggy Frets: 5827

    Why do Americans precede the word fucker with mother?

    Are they insinuating that the person has sex with their mum? I've never understood that. To be honest though, I don't really understand Americans anyway.

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  • BezzerBezzer Frets: 581
    edited February 2018
    Neill said:
    Bezzer said:

    This stiff always makes me laugh ... and this isn't aimed at anyone in this thread I don't believe ... that there's is an awful lot of musician slagging on this forum (and in general to be honest) but as soon as it's pointed at the Beatles the speaker is an idiot.

    FWIW, I can't stand the Beatles and George aside (I love nearly everything he did after) I don't think they were very competent performers ... sorry. But doesn't mean they didn't write good songs, they just aren't to my taste.  But I suspect there was a hell of a lot of studio polishing ... and they couldn't be heard live anyway so ...

    No, sorry you have that completely wrong.  When the Beatles came back from Hamburg spending days and nights gigging they were a very competent tight unit. There's loads of youtube footage of them playing live and when you consider how crude the recording techniques were back then it still stands up very well.  

    Some years ago there was a documentary where they produced some footage of a live performance of "Ticket to Ride" and switched between the disc recording and the live version.  As they say on "I'm Sorry I haven't a Clue" there wasn't a gnat's crotchet between the two.  All those Ringo bashers out there - how many drummers do you know who can exactly reproduce a recording without a click track? 
    How can I be “wrong” for expressing an opinion? I did prefix with “I don’t think” but hey ho ... it’s proved the point I WAS trying to make. It’s seems very free and easy on here to slag off absolutely everyone but heaven forbid it’s the Beatles ...

    If you like ‘em, great. I don’t. I don’t get it at all. But that’s just me.
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  • english_bobenglish_bob Frets: 5128
    edited February 2018
    Come on @Bezzer, tell me about this "studio polishing". What did they do?

    Is this it?

    Image result for beatles polishing

    Don't talk politics and don't throw stones. Your royal highnesses.

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  • AlexCAlexC Frets: 2396
    Old man attempts to be controversial by slagging off music act from 60 years ago shocker! 
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  • NeillNeill Frets: 941
    Fretwired said:
    I'm not a Beatles fan but I suspect they have sold more records than Quincy .. not bad for 'incompetent musicians' .. they were good at what they did which was writing and recording their own songs. They could always turn to a mate like Clapton if they wanted a flashy guitar solo or some brass.

    Quincy also slagged off Michael Jackson which wasn't the brightest thing to do - accused him of pinching other people's songs. The Beatles and Jackson have millions of followers on social media who are currently giving Quincy hell.


    Also, I guess QJ didn't know that Putin is a huge Beatles fan...
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  • Bezzer said:
    How can I be “wrong” for expressing an opinion? I did prefix with “I don’t think” but hey ho ... it’s proved the point I WAS trying to make. It’s seems very free and easy on here to slag off absolutely everyone but heaven forbid it’s the Beatles ...

    If you like ‘em, great. I don’t. I don’t get it at all. But that’s just me.

    It's fine to not like the Beatles, or anyone else, for that matter. That's your opinion. I'm no huge fan myself.

    But you're wrong to think they weren't competent musicians. That's not really an opinion, it's a matter of fact - albeit with a degree of subjectivity.

    R.
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  • ICBM said:
    Some very technically competent musicians seem to have a problem understanding why technical competence is not the most important characteristic of great music.

    He’s also completely wrong.
    Reminds of a comment Danny Gatton made about not being impressed by any of the British Invasion bands as they didn't play their instruments very well and in the process he completely missed the point.
    Most people don't want to listen to endless fretboard wanking regardless of how proficient it is. They want good songs and in that respect The Beatles pissed over everyone.
    As for McCartney not being a good bass player....total bollocks.
    Ringo is a great drummer because like all great drummers he plays what is right for the song. 

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  • BezzerBezzer Frets: 581

    @robinbowes yeah, I can't argue with that ... I should emphasise though, I did say performers (by which I meant technical performance) not musicians.  I won't take away from their musicianship, it's just not my cuppa.

    @english_bob ha ha ... yeah yeah, OK.  Maybe my knowledge of "what was possible" isn't as good as it could be, but I was thinking about people like Les Paul and his ilk and what they were doing.  I'd be interested to see how many takes were required, how many overdubs etc.  Not that it's unusual for anyone to do so ... you know what I mean.

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  • not_the_djnot_the_dj Frets: 7306
    edited February 2018
    Good info here on recording their debut...10 songs in a day!

    https://www.beatlesbible.com/1963/02/11/recording-please-please-me-lp/
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  • scrumhalfscrumhalf Frets: 11262
    I think people "in the business" making disparaging remarks about The Beatles should know better.

    1) The Beatles changed things. Certainly as far as the States was concerned, where mainstream music was Lawrence Welk and the Kingston Trio. You don't have as huge an impact as they did without being any good. I would imagine that the majority of forumites were born after The Beatles split and possibly don't get quite how amazing some of their stuff was compared to what was the prevailing norm at that time.

    2) Two of them aren't around any more. I bet QJ wouldn't have said that to Lennon's face.

    3) Good music doesn't necessarily come from playing an instrument in a way that other people think is "proper". It comes from the music being good. I dare say that driving a Marshall with a Les Paul wasn't using either in the way that the manufacturer would have considered "proper" but fuck, together they sounded good.




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  • JalapenoJalapeno Frets: 6378
    edited February 2018
    Fretwired said:
    I'm not a Beatles fan but I suspect they have sold more records than Quincy .. not bad for 'incompetent musicians' .. they were good at what they did which was writing and recording their own songs. They could always turn to a mate like Clapton if they wanted a flashy guitar solo or some brass.
    Eric in secretly played trombone on Sgt Pepper shocker !
    Quincy also slagged off Michael Jackson which wasn't the brightest thing to do - accused him of pinching other people's songs.

    That's downright rude and ridiculous given how much money he made from being MJ's producer !!!!!

    Imagine something sharp and witty here ......

    Feedback
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  • richardhomerrichardhomer Frets: 24793
    edited February 2018
    I wonder if there has ever been a more naturally gifted musician than Paul McCartney? Certainly ‘competent’ on guitar, bass, keys and drums - and a gift for melody that anyone would envy. 

    To rate the Beatles in terms of instrumental virtuosity is a bit like viewing Chuck Berry as a failure for not being able to shred....
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  • Winny_PoohWinny_Pooh Frets: 7732
    edited February 2018
    Reality check. QJ is a jazz musician and arranger. Put on some Wayne Shorter or Miles and then some Beatles right after. 

    I don't generally expect virtuosos to be impressed by the limited musical knowledge and technical abilities of self taught pop bands. 

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  • I wonder if there has ever been a more naturally gifted musician than Paul McCartney? Certainly ‘competent’ on guitar, bass, keys and drums - and a gift for melody that anyone would envy. 

    To rate the Beatles in terms of instrumental virtuosity is a bit like viewing Chuck Berry as a failure for not being able to shred....
    Are you serious? I wonder if there has ever been a more naturally gifted musician than Paul McCartney? 
    I do not question he has an ear for a tune. But come on. Hyperbole gone mad.

    I think you guys forget how good "real" musicians are. The ability to write and play catchy tunes does not make you a great musician - it makes you a commercial success.

    I reckon if you could ask any of the Beatles if they considered themselves to be wonderful musicians they would all say no. My point is that QJ is right, no question. but it doesn't matter, they sold a truckload.

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