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Do I really need a nice OM?

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  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 11788
    Definitely no
    I sold my OMs, kept the jumbos and slope-shouldered dreads
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  • KKJaleKKJale Frets: 982
    Having spent years with two OM's, one an ex-Fylde maker's, one a Collings, both now gone, I'd say... maybe. 

    IMO, neck width and string spacing allowing, the potentially better complement to a dread is a 12-fret 000. 


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  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 11788
     I see acoustics a bit differently , I am happy to have say 2 electrics , but for me I wouldn't want more than one acoustic , and I play acoustic more than any other type of guitar, and love that I have this one special guitar which just sounds right when I play it , I find them more alive than electrics and they respond so much to different techniques ,plus you can't hide behind an acoustic, it would feel like I'm cheating lol :D or maybe I just need to get out more!
    Some people only ever want to play one guitar. I think Gillian Welch and Dave Rawlings stick to one guitar

    There are other reasons to have other ones though: a Tenor guitar, an open-tuning one, a nylon, a baritone
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  • Very interesting @AliGorie thanks for chiming in. @BigLicks67, do you find that you play different styles on both guitars, or keep defaulting to one or the other?
    The D28 is on a stand all the time so that is the one I use most often and it is good for most styles. The OM is great for finger picking has forward shifted x bracing that is scalloped so the top really is lively. However, I don't think this particular model is a strummers guitar. 
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  • AliGorie said:
    OK, heres my take on OM's vs 000's -
    24.9 = 126.37
    25,4 = 131.54
    now for ‘developed’ hands that difference in tension shouldn’t be an issue, heres (broadly speaking) why the typical 000 is better for plectrum work and the OM is better for fingerpicking - it’s to do with the bridge’s position in relation to the X brace system.
    You’ll note that only OM bridge ‘wings’ are over the X allowing the top to vibrate more freely when (lightly) fingerpicked. But it may sound strident / over-driven with a flatpick.
    Whereas the with the 000 the whole bridge is directly ‘in contact’ with the X brace making it better for strumming and ‘lead’ paling with a flatpack.
    the 000


    and a 1930's OM



    AG I believe pre war OMs had forward shifted bracing which would account for differences in these pictures.
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  • AliGorieAliGorie Frets: 308
    edited February 2018
    AG I believe pre war OMs had forward shifted bracing which would account for differences in these pictures.
    BL67, the 'PRE WAR' bracing hadn't been 'shifted' anywhere, thats where they'd evolved too be via the 'mutha' of this model  line - the 000 12 fret - dont let the 12 fret thing cloud the issue as many do. The major benefit of the original 000 was, as I mentioned above the relationship of the position of the bridge to the X bracing system.
    Do remember that the 000 was the largest model martin made until the Dread was designed for volume to compete with fiddle, banjo and vocals all around one microphone.
    The OM was a 'modified' 000 to give access to higher frets - they squared off the shoulders and the bottom bout but left the bracing as was - because the 000 had 25.4 scale and that didn't change with the OM in other words it was tried and tested STRUCTURALLY robust and wasn't gonna trigger warranty repairs, AND it allowed the top to resonate.
    The quality of raw materials (spruce) changed and the beefed up the tops and bracing which culminated in the overbuilt offerings of the 1970's and '80's

     If you'r interested go through the links I put in above  - should unravel all the (deliberate) Martin marketing guff on bracing.
    Going back to the source of this model, the 000 12 fret heres a recent one, built properly in spruce and MAPLE - yes 'humble'  maple ( I bought a similar b/s set for £50) - but just listen to it, it compares with some of the best I've herd on the web
    A Circa Guitar by John Slobod
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWpQwBxiAEI

    nice article on him here Circa-
    https://www.fretboardjournal.com/features/circa-guitars-shop-tour/

    and the real thing a 1931 000  go to  2.25 mins in
    and no, you wouldn’t want to strum these - way to much sonic information going on


    hope this all  makes sense




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  • Jimbro66Jimbro66 Frets: 2418
    I have a dreadnought in cedar/mahogany that I live to play. Really full sound, great harmonics, clarity and low end. In fact it's almost a bit of a loose cannon if you really dig in. 

    I've been toying with the idea of a completely superfluous purchase, a high end OM in rosewood/Sitka. I'm not sure who really other than the attraction of playing a smaller bodied guitar that might be a bit tighter than my dread.

    Any thoughts welcome :)
    My two-pennuth: Firstly a £1200 budget isn’t going to buy anything ‘high end’ so there will already be some compromise in construction and tone. Secondly, what is an OM going to do for you that the dread does not?

    I gig with an Atkin OM28H Retrospective model and also own a sub-£1,000 OM and sub-£1,000 super jumbo. The latter gets very little use. As an OM user I would see no point in spending a lot of money on a dread unless I had a specific need for it, e.g. bluegrass flat picking. It works both ways. To my mind there is not sufficient reason to own a dread and an OM other than GAS.

    If you had said you were considering a twelve-fret parlour guitar or something like an L1 I could see the sense in that as they are very diffent beasts that may well encourage exploration of other playing styles and provide a very different playing experience. But an OM? Save your money :)
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  • AG - okay let's call it the original bracing, the point I was trying to make is that the Clapton model follows the bracing pattern of the modern standard series, as would a modern OM model, so theoretically the braces should be in the same place on a 2008 000-28EC and a 2008 OM21 or OM18 or OM28. 
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  • AliGorieAliGorie Frets: 308
    so theoretically the braces should be in the same place on a 2008 000-28EC and a 2008 OM21 or OM18 or OM28. 
    But is it ? - what your suggesting is the two scale lenghts have the same position of bracing - ?.
    that's the problem with cf martin - I know there's forward / backward / scalloped non- scalloped 5/16th / 1/4 inch and on and on - they just don't have any ideas other than regurgitating the past in as many permutations possible.  

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  • @danishbacon - you may find this useful. This is my dreadnought played with a pick closely followed by my OM. It's just a rough recording with a Zoom H1 but it gives you an idea of the differences between the 2 types.




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  • @danishbacon - you may find this useful. This is my dreadnought played with a pick closely followed by my OM. It's just a rough recording with a Zoom H1 but it gives you an idea of the differences between the 2 types.




    That's very useful. Thank you @BigLicks67 ;
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  • CloudNineCloudNine Frets: 4254
    It's been said already. A great dread can be 90% the finger picker that a nice OM is. But imo, even the best OM's are only ever about 60% the strummer/flat picker that a nice Dread is.

    Also, the surest way to make your Dread feel too big, is to regularly play an OM alongside it. You then get caught in an annoying limbo of loving the comfort of the OM and the tone and power of the Dread. 

    If you have a great Dread that does it all, and it does not cause you any discomfort, I would stick with playing that.
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  • Moe_ZambeekMoe_Zambeek Frets: 3419
    edited February 2018
    @BigLicks67 they both sound great! 
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  • LewyLewy Frets: 4123
    I have a nice spruce/mahogany dread which i do nearly all my gigging with, but also really like having a good spruce/rosewood OM too. I have completely different setups on both and get a lot of inspiration from switching back and forth between the two when I’m practicing and writing/arranging. 
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  • TrudeTrude Frets: 914
    I'd say you definitely need a nice 000-18.  If only there was someone around here selling one, and who might be about to bump their thread in the classifieds.....
    Some of the gear, some idea

    Trading feedback here
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  • LewyLewy Frets: 4123
    edited February 2018
    CloudNine said:
    But imo, even the best OM's are only ever about 60% the strummer/flat picker that a nice Dread is.
    There's such a world of difference between flatpicking and just strumming, and the distinction is relevant because OMs can make very fine flatpicking guitars, certainly on a par with dreads in a solo flatpicking or duo/trio context (you'd still want a dread in a full on bluegrass band). Steve Kauffman seems to exclusively play OM pattern guitars these days. Julian Lage would be another great example.
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  • AliGorieAliGorie Frets: 308
    I'd be interested to know where Mr Bacon is actually picking (on the string plane) on both the guitars in the clip - flatpickers almost always apply the plectrum to the strings just behind the s/hole or even nearer the bridge (except for 'vamping' chords) - thats where they get the sound they like that goes so well with bluegrass / ensemble playing.
    It certainly sounds in that area - thing is OM's like to be played OVER the s/hole  area - u get a rounder tone.
    Just an observation.
    omg - I haven't used the word 'vamping' for decades - is it still relevant / in use ?
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11410
    Jimbro66 said:
    I have a dreadnought in cedar/mahogany that I live to play. Really full sound, great harmonics, clarity and low end. In fact it's almost a bit of a loose cannon if you really dig in. 

    I've been toying with the idea of a completely superfluous purchase, a high end OM in rosewood/Sitka. I'm not sure who really other than the attraction of playing a smaller bodied guitar that might be a bit tighter than my dread.

    Any thoughts welcome :)
    My two-pennuth: Firstly a £1200 budget isn’t going to buy anything ‘high end’ so there will already be some compromise in construction and tone. Secondly, what is an OM going to do for you that the dread does not?

    I gig with an Atkin OM28H Retrospective model and also own a sub-£1,000 OM and sub-£1,000 super jumbo. The latter gets very little use. As an OM user I would see no point in spending a lot of money on a dread unless I had a specific need for it, e.g. bluegrass flat picking. It works both ways. To my mind there is not sufficient reason to own a dread and an OM other than GAS.

    If you had said you were considering a twelve-fret parlour guitar or something like an L1 I could see the sense in that as they are very diffent beasts that may well encourage exploration of other playing styles and provide a very different playing experience. But an OM? Save your money :)

    If they are different woods then they can sound very different.

    I have a spruce/rosewood dread and a spruce/mahogany OM.  They have different sounds and complement each other well.

    I'm not sure it would be worth owning a spruce/rosewood OM alongside the dread though.

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  • Jimbro66Jimbro66 Frets: 2418
    crunchman said:
    Jimbro66 said:
    I have a dreadnought in cedar/mahogany that I live to play. Really full sound, great harmonics, clarity and low end. In fact it's almost a bit of a loose cannon if you really dig in. 

    I've been toying with the idea of a completely superfluous purchase, a high end OM in rosewood/Sitka. I'm not sure who really other than the attraction of playing a smaller bodied guitar that might be a bit tighter than my dread.

    Any thoughts welcome
    My two-pennuth: Firstly a £1200 budget isn’t going to buy anything ‘high end’ so there will already be some compromise in construction and tone. Secondly, what is an OM going to do for you that the dread does not?

    I gig with an Atkin OM28H Retrospective model and also own a sub-£1,000 OM and sub-£1,000 super jumbo. The latter gets very little use. As an OM user I would see no point in spending a lot of money on a dread unless I had a specific need for it, e.g. bluegrass flat picking. It works both ways. To my mind there is not sufficient reason to own a dread and an OM other than GAS.

    If you had said you were considering a twelve-fret parlour guitar or something like an L1 I could see the sense in that as they are very diffent beasts that may well encourage exploration of other playing styles and provide a very different playing experience. But an OM? Save your money

    If they are different woods then they can sound very different.

    I have a spruce/rosewood dread and a spruce/mahogany OM.  They have different sounds and complement each other well.

    I'm not sure it would be worth owning a spruce/rosewood OM alongside the dread though.

    I go along with that. When I bought my rosewood Atkin OM at Alistair's workshop I also tried a mahogany model. They sounded quite different and I kept going from one to the other unsure which I preferred. Both played beautifully. I decided on the rosewood. Maybe a mahogany OM might justify the OP's purchase but I'm personally still not convinced. However, he placed a WTB thread very soon after this one so seems to be seeking moral support for a decision already taken ;)
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  • Jimbro66 said:

    I go along with that. When I bought my rosewood Atkin OM at Alistair's workshop I also tried a mahogany model. They sounded quite different and I kept going from one to the other unsure which I preferred. Both played beautifully. I decided on the rosewood. Maybe a mahogany OM might justify the OP's purchase but I'm personally still not convinced. However, he placed a WTB thread very soon after this one so seems to be seeking moral support for a decision already taken ;)
    Ha! I've made the decision that I will be making a decision when it feels right to make a decision. I'm actually quite torn about it because I've come to the realization that I don't *need* another guitar, but I certainly *want* another guitar. It's just a matter of finding the right one, and the choices around seem to be quite good at the price range I'm looking at.

    I'm also certain now that I do not want a very small Parlour or 12 fret type instrument, but the appeal of a different sounding instrument is still there. Surely a spruce/rosewood OM will be a different animal than a cedar/hog dread.

    I've put the dread in DADGAD and now I'm thinking of justifying it by having one guitar in each tuning ;) sounds legit no?

    One of playing style, shit recording and track, on the Boss RC loopstation with built in drummer in box.


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