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We are a 8/9 piece TexMex-style band. Drums, bass, guitar, keys, accordion, harmonica, lead vox, 4 x backing vox, plus brass section, so we could easily eat up > 20 channels. Realistically though, I'd probably not put drums + bass through the PA so we could manage with less (12ish).
I'm looking at:
A&H QU-SB
Soundcraft Ui24R
Behringer X32 Rack
Behringer X32 Core + S16, S32, or SD16
Any thoughts on any of these?
R.
Eqd Speaker Cranker clone
Monte Allums TR-2 Plus mod kit
Trading feedback: http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/60602/
Currently we are using 3 different QU16 mixers across 3 different bands, we have spec'ed them for installs and 2020 studios use a QU24 theatre shows. Nothing bad to report in all of this so highly recommended being the SB is just the surface-less version of this well proven platform
I don't get how the rear panel inputs on the Behringer X32 Rack would be user friendly at all for gigs? Behringer stuff is amazing value for money too though.
I was pretty much settled on the AH, then a pro friend (studio + PA hire) recommended Behringer. Then I saw the Soundcraft.
Still undecided...
Eqd Speaker Cranker clone
Monte Allums TR-2 Plus mod kit
Trading feedback: http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/60602/
Some key points to consider are
Has it got enough inputs ?
Has it got enough aux sends .... remember IEM's when used in stereo (such as they should be in a civilised world) use 2 aux sends per person
Has it got good quality dynamics on every channel and at least 2 great quality master effects (nice verb and delay etc)
What's the remote ap like .... I hate the Behringer one, dislike Mackies DL one as well but like Presonus and A&H's ....with a surfaceless mixer the ap is the only interface so really important
Is it well proven and reliable .... it's too early for the Soundcraft to tell but the Behringer comes from the X32 stable which is well proven in the PA industry as a cheap FOH and (more likely) stage monitor mixer, mainly cos of digital splits and cheapness in all honestly but it's well supported
The QU has the best pedigree, build quality, the most aux sends, the best dynamics and master effects but I think it's more money.
Pricey, but better pedigree?
R.
Eqd Speaker Cranker clone
Monte Allums TR-2 Plus mod kit
Trading feedback: http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/60602/
I've had horrendous reliability issues with the Soundcraft Ui16 that would make me wary of anything else in that range. It's not a product they developed in-house, it was a company called SMpro, who Harman Group bought out to get the product which was essentially just slightly tweaked and rebranded with the Soundcraft/Lexicon names.
It's arriving tomorrow, I'll report back.
R.
Eqd Speaker Cranker clone
Monte Allums TR-2 Plus mod kit
Trading feedback: http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/60602/
I think units with a screen on front are a good bet if you can afford it in case the wifi goes AWOL as you can at least keep things going.
EDIT: just had a closer look and IOS and Android apps look really well sorted. It will be a hit no doubt.
I assume this is yours and looks like a bargain. https://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/product/170602310985008-681893--yamaha-tf-rack-digital-mixer-ex-demo-bcxh01022?gclid=CjwKCAjwo4jOBRBmEiwABWNaMSp1LwsGRjgxYZnpkIwnxfSDwzKtvZS9KJqgcCKOE0vvV_v6Bs2M0RoCflcQAvD_BwE
My only concern is expansion. To add more channels I'd need an NY-64D expansion card plus a Tio1608-D unit. Not cheap.
R.
Eqd Speaker Cranker clone
Monte Allums TR-2 Plus mod kit
Trading feedback: http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/60602/
I actually got it cheaper than that.
R.
Eqd Speaker Cranker clone
Monte Allums TR-2 Plus mod kit
Trading feedback: http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/60602/
We are a 6-piece pub rock band with 2 singers, 2 guitarists (who also sing), and bass and drums. We are used to putting everything through our PA, which has decent EV speakers and power amps, but we're frustrated with our old 16 channel Yamaha mixer - e.g. we can't get enough personal monitoring feeds from it and we're tired of setting up snakes.
Based on the discussion, I'm pretty well eliminating Soundcraft and Mackie, and am mulling over the following digital mixers (prices as per Thomann):
- RCF M 18 (£360)
- Behringer X Air XR16 (£400)
- Behringer X Air X18 (£440)
- the t.mix DM 20 (£570)
- MIDAS MR 18 (£616)
- Allen & Heath QU-SB (£870)
We might also be persuaded to spend a bit more cash and consider things like:
- Allen & Heath Qu-PAC (£1,177)
- Yamaha TF Rack (£1500)
- Allen & Heath Qu-16 Chrome (£1,570)
- Yamaha TF-1 (£1900) (probably out of range of our pockets!)
I take the points made in the discussion above about the benefits of a physical control surface as opposed to iPad only control, but I *think* we're probably going to be content with the cheaper iPad-only solutions, given that we are pretty much a "set and play" band.
Would much appreciate any thoughts... Key criteria? Recommendations??
It does what we need. The sound is clearer than our analogue desk. We use an external wireless router for resilience, reliability, and better security. The bass player has a Mac cables into the desk. Three of us connect our iPads, mainly to adjust our personal monitor mixes.
On Saturday we did our first repeat location since getting the desk. We loaded the saved settings from the previous visit, checked that everything was connected, and were ready to go.
Using an iPad rather than a physical desk takes getting used to. There are some controls that you have to find through sub-menus. However once set up there’s very little that you have to change between venues.
One thing which we’ve found very useful is the ability to record into a PC, then go out front and listen to the playback. Apart from backline, which is low volume for personal monitoring, and of course the drums, you’re hearing what the audience hears.
I actually thought that the Behringer X18 X Air had been discontinued as it's not available at Thomann anymore. But I see it still is widely available elsewhere, so I'll add that to my list. It seems to sell new for £440.
Do you find your X18 robust enough?? Just from looking at photos, the XR16 (rack model) looks more robust - although on the downside it seems to have only 8 XLR inputs, with the rest being 6.3mm jacks - which seems a bit of a pity.
Friends use the Behrigner XR16 and it actually failed BUT Behringer collected it from house and had it back them fixed within 2 days (important that). they actually regret not getting the XR18 as its got onboard recording etc (not sure how the Midas MR18 differs from the XR18 to be honest). Note that the onboard multi-track recording on the QU range is VERY well sorted.
I personally have the QU-SB as it's just a more pro looking unit in term of casing as it's a rack width and all metal casing - it feels premium product and I noticed they did have to drop the price a good bit about a year ago to keep competitive. There is no comparison in the flesh between it and the Behringer/Midas offerings...the QU-SB feel 'tough'. Once racked up I guess it doesn't matter as much. I assume mic pre-amps etc are similar though...
Having compared the QU and Behrinegr ipad apps I actually preferred the Behringer one. I guess they have a user base say 10 times that of Allen & Heath so can put more funds into it and the revisions. They use color better so it;s easier to see what window your in ...monitor mix etc.
if you are a set and play band then the non fader version should be fine...first few gigs will be interesting but once you've got the setups then it settles down.. Remember the non fader version essentially function as a stage box and you can sit it on the ground etc so easier for small venue...you can put it places you wouldn't want place a full desk. Means cable runs can be simpler....i.e. put it beside the drummer so cables tend to be going to rear of the stage instead of across the stage to the typical mixing desk on a sub at side of stage setup.
Also remember that the onboard Behringer wifi is generally regarded as being poor great so plan on using an external router anyway (unless they have improved it?) and don't base your decision on the Behringer/Midas being an all in one solution.
No matter what, all this stuff a complete bargain compared to what you'd have to spend for the same functionality 10 years ago.
R.
Eqd Speaker Cranker clone
Monte Allums TR-2 Plus mod kit
Trading feedback: http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/60602/
Yamaha rarely make mistakes and the QU design is getting older now.
Yamaha desk looks the part anyway.