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  • poopotpoopot Frets: 9098
    ijonty said:

    Nor what @poopot means by 'panned so everything sits in its own space, basic eq'...
    You have the stereo spectrum to play with when you mix multiple mono tracks. If you have 1 mono track you can leave it  so an equal amount of sound comes out of both left and right speakers (up the middle). If you have 2 mono tracks, putting both "up the middle" means that both tracks are occupying the same "space" on the stereo spectrum and can (and probably will) sound lifeless and lack punch/definition.

    put some headphones on and have a listen to the raw drum track here:

    Although some drums are slightly left or slightly right of middle, that is more to do with the positioning of the overhead mics when we recorded.

    Now have a listen to the "basic mixed" track

    In this case each track has been panned so it has its own "space" on the stereo spectrum, Even just this basic panning improves the sound. Some tracks have also has an EQ plugin added just to remove "boomyness" or add "highs" etc but its mainly the panning that has achieved this clarity to the recording. If you look at the screen grab of the mixer window you can see how they have been panned:



    So the aim is to have ALL tracks sitting in their own spot on the stereo spectrum, this way nothing is competing to be heard or masking out other tracks.

    Once you get the basic "stereo" mix right you then can start EQ'ing the various tracks so that certain frequencies dont cross over and sound lifeless and lack punch/definition.
    Have a look at the below pic, will give you a rough idea where instruments sit over the frequency range.




    Once you get this idea into your head you will start to notice it in every commercially produced song you listen to :)
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  • flying_pieflying_pie Frets: 1806
    @ijonty a high pass filter is used to cut off low frequencies (i know... It sounds like it should be the other way round). A common use is to take away the low end from guitars (a good start is around 100). It makes the guitars sound a bit strange on their own but makes the bass much clearer and helps both stand clear of each other in the mix. Without it the top end of the bass and bottom end of guitars merge onto a mush.

    Panning drums into their own space means having some of the cymbals/toms slightly l left or right, like you would see on a real drum kit. It makes use of stereo to make the sound more natural feeling and helps them stay separate from each other in the mix 
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  • ijontyijonty Frets: 32
    Thanks both @flying_pie and @poopot, really helpful. Not sure I fully understand that frequency spectrum/instrument range pic, but will give it a proper look.

    I'm sure a lot of what I need to learn is covered in other threads so I won't chuck loads of questions in here. But if there are particular threads about basic producing, let me know.

    Currently, all I'm doing is recording by micing up amps to a Zoom H5n, then sticking them into Garageband, where I randomly mess with volume levels before giving up...


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  • poopotpoopot Frets: 9098
    ijonty said:
    Thanks both @flying_pie and @poopot, really helpful. Not sure I fully understand that frequency spectrum/instrument range pic, but will give it a proper look.
    If you look at the pic (and it is just a rough guide) there are points along the frequency range that instruments “share”. The idea is to eq your recordings to let each instrument punch through.

    Say you have tracks recorded and the bass player has boosted his high mids, and the guitarist has scooped his mids out leaving just the low and high end, there will be certain frequencies that the bass and guitar are both prominently sitting on... it’ll sound muddy/flat... so you cut some of the basses high mids, cut some low from the guitar and boost the mids... 

    itll probably mean that in isolation the bass sound horrible as does the guitar... but together it works and sounds good!...

    of course I may be talking nonsense, but it works well for me with the very little I do!.

    ijonty said:

    Currently, all I'm doing is recording by micing up amps to a Zoom H5n, then sticking them into Garageband, where I randomly mess with volume levels before giving up...

    See if you can get hold of an sm57 and a decent mic pre, will make the world of difference.
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  • ijontyijonty Frets: 32
    poopot said:
    See if you can get hold of an sm57 and a decent mic pre, will make the world of difference.
    Sorry, I wasn’t clear, I’ve got a decent mic going via XLR into the Zoom. Don’t know what a mic pre is though (starts Googling...)


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  • spark240spark240 Frets: 2073
    edited March 2018


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  • IMC1980IMC1980 Frets: 141
    edited March 2018
    spark240 said:
    Get ready....

    The track hasn't embedded, I had to copy the link into a browser to listen. Nice job! I like the sound on the snare and the main guitar sounds pretty sweet in the centre of the mix. Only listened on cheap ear buds, so take my comments with a pinch of consumer grade salt.... vocals had a bit of sibilance in places and guitars sounded meaty! 

    I noticed some backing vox in the chorus, thinking air adding some to the mix myself tomorrow. Was also considering adding another guitar and doing a left right pan for the rhythm parts.
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  • poopotpoopot Frets: 9098
    edited March 2018
    spark240 said:
    Sounds great!... spill the beans... what did you do to it?
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  • spark240spark240 Frets: 2073
    edited March 2018
    Not sure what’s up with the link?...I can’t play it at all now...tried posting a link.




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  • spark240spark240 Frets: 2073
    poopot said:
    spark240 said:
    Sounds great!... spill the beans... what did you do to it?
    I’ll try and do some screen video or something soon...but for now...

    started with drums, edited out an noisy bits, gated the kick and snare, EQ on all drum parts, Abbey Rd plates on snare, also stuck a very small bit of Waves Lo Air on kick.

    Ampire on main guitars, can’t recall the setting.

    Abbey Rd plates and delay on Wah and lead guitars, both panned.

    Bass , EQ, compression.

    vocal, tricky.....I kept a main vocal central , then decided to Copy the track 4 times.

    Panned 2 tracks L/R, I delayed Left -25ms and advanced Right 25ms, added reverb and delay and EQ.

    The next 2 tracks, edited down to just the choruses, them the magic Melodyne to create the harmony pitch, it was a bit tricky actually, panned L/R again, very low in the mix.

    All Vocla have quite a bit of FX, EQ, Comp. Rev, delay.

    Main bus - slight EQ and Limiter .

    Nice challenge !



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  • ijontyijonty Frets: 32
    edited March 2018
    This is really interesting to me, thanks for posting @spark240 ;.  A screen video would be great if you get chance. I'm presuming Waves Lo Air, Ampire and stuff like that are plugins or something?


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  • spark240spark240 Frets: 2073
    ijonty said:
    This is really interesting to me, thanks for posting @spark240 ;.  A screen video would be great if you get chance. I'm presuming Waves Lo Air, Ampire and stuff like that are plugins or something?
    They are indeed...I tend to use Lo Air on Kicks, Bass guitar, some picked acoustic guitar, Ampire is just a guitar sim plug in, Ill look at the video thing very soon !


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  • poopotpoopot Frets: 9098
    Ok... having spent most of today sat stationary on the M25... I got to thinking about the original thread started by @TTony which inspired this thread... So I thought I would see what could be achieved with "Garageband" and just the stuff it comes bundled with.

    As a reminder below is the raw recording with levels roughly balanced, no eq etc:



    Sounds duff right?
    But the basics are there (vocals are a 
    struggle) 

    next up is the mix as done by @spark240 ;
    Really good mix, lots of air and punch details of what was done are listed in a previous post in this thread.



    The next mix was done in garageband using just the plugins that come with it... for a free bit of software its bloody good! just basic panning and EQ, harmonies pitch shifted with the built in pitch shifter...



    If anyone else wants to have a crack DM me and ill point you in the direction of the raw tracks.
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  • IMC1980IMC1980 Frets: 141
    Spent a bit of time on this tonight, should be done in a few days hopefully.
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  • IMC1980IMC1980 Frets: 141
    edited March 2018
    @poopot The Garage Band mix sounds tight! I have decided to use a pitchshifter to do the harmonies; it meant I could make a start on it last night whereas singing them myself would have been a no go with the kids asleep. It is amazing what some compressors and a bit of EQ can do though. 
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  • spark240spark240 Frets: 2073
    Any idea why my link doesn’t show e Listen in browser option?


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  • poopotpoopot Frets: 9098
    spark240 said:
    Any idea why my link doesn’t show e Listen in browser option?
    When I click it, it says it’s not available outside of soundcloud... maybe a setting you need to change?
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  • steamabacussteamabacus Frets: 1258
    spark240 said:
    Any idea why my link doesn’t show e Listen in browser option?
    One of the track permissions on SC is 'Display embed code'. Is this checked? (click on More>Edit track>Permissions)
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  • spark240spark240 Frets: 2073
    spark240 said:
    Any idea why my link doesn’t show e Listen in browser option?
    One of the track permissions on SC is 'Display embed code'. Is this checked? (click on More>Edit track>Permissions)
    Sorted thanks !


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  • spark240spark240 Frets: 2073
    edited March 2018
    I tried a Quicktime screen video, CPU was a bit tight with everything going, so I did the drums and Bass only first,  I didnt bother with a vocal talk through, seems pretty obvious whats happening, I didnt spend a lot of time to be honest, probably could have done a bit better.

    Seems I didnt actually Gate the Kick and snare in the end, so really just showing you what Plug I used.




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