Want to write but where to start?

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  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 14320
    Where do you start? With a drumbeat then lay guitars over it? 
    Pretty much, yes.

    The drumbeat nails the tempo and basic *feel*. It also frees the guitar/bass/keyboard/horn from having to suggest the underlying tempo. 

    What determines the length of the verse/chorus etc?
    Short answer - the quantity of words that need singing. 

    Generally speaking, if you are creating repetitive chord sequences, you will reach a point when the moment feels right for a change of key or to move to a different chord sequence. 

    Occasionally, a song's lyrics are so compelling that it is possible to get away with one chord sequence for the duration of the entire composition. 
    Be seeing you.
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  • IMC1980IMC1980 Frets: 141
    I have to be able to play one of the guitar parts on an acoustic and sing the while song before I record it. I record riff ideas as they come and sometimes the two meet! 

    For riffs it is always one 57 on my amp and a basic beat after finding the tempo I want, I change that later after recording.

    With the songs, the last one I did,  I sat with an amp sim and used the part I had worked out on acoustic to get drum patterns with the right feel in BFD3. I worked section by section and once the drums are nailed, I started layering guitars. For this one as I was happy with the takes on guitar, I re-amped them and will use they as the final takes. Prior to that, once I had the song on acoustic and could sing it all, I would record all rhythm guitars through my amp and vocals in one day to a basic beat. Then edit the drums later and add in bass, overlays etc.

    It all takes fucking ages though!


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  • Flink_PoydFlink_Poyd Frets: 2490
    mixolyd said:
    Ok I’ve listened now and there’s definitely the start of a dramatic song in there.


    The drum intro breaks the rule by doing the same thing four times=BORING!

    But I did hear some small noise in there, by putting in noises along the way you can start to tell a story in that first 20 secs and justify the four bars of drums.

    Yeah bar two there’s a subtle noise of something being switched on, that’s great.  Bars 3 and 4 need noises in increasing number or volume to create drama and anticipation for the coming verse.

    Im not saying ut those in now, I’d just write down “add x here”, “crescendo y here” and move on at this stage which is planning.

    Im using midi drums so basically drag and drop blocks, this was literally something to just play over. The small noise you heard was errrm, the influence of bourbon and listening back i understand what you mean by by adding something else in.

    spark240 said:
    My process is varied..lots of good advice already .

    a lot of drum programs have a basic song pattern built in, I use those sometimes.

    otherwise, a few chords progressions, usually acoustic on repeat, then try some guitar hook lines.

    Main ideas lately have come from synth groove presets, they can often spark off a feel just with the rhythm and sound,
    Yes thats in the program Im using, EZ drummer 2 demo and Im just figuring stuff like this out. I used to have a midi keyboard, might be time to buy a new one. ;)

    think simple... then add the complex parts after... 

    for example, my entry for this month Rotm comp started as a simple 1-4 chord progression. Emaj to Amaj worked out a tempo by tapping an app on my phone, set the auto drummer going in logic, found a bass loop I liked and edited it to match the E and A... set the whole thing to loop... messed about with some guitar riffs until I had something that I thought was catchy... 

    now i have drums, bass, backing and a hook riff.

    then you go in and change it a bit... I played the Emaj in a different shape, inverted chord, tweaked the drum pattern to give me more of a groove and tarted up the riff... submitted to Rotm...

    sent the submission to bandmates to get their opinions on it and within 15mins had the mp3 sent back with the singer humming a melody over it... so now we have a chorus!... time to get a verse out of it... took a simple approach to this... went with 1-4-3 chord progression but changed it to the minor... so Emin, Amin & G...

    now we have a chorus, verse and intro (same as chorus) chopped the parts into 8 bar loops for ease.

    quickly laid down 8 bars of intro (riff heavy), 8 bars chorus, 8bars verse, 8 bars chorus, 8 bars verse, 24 bars chorus..

    take inspiration from wherever it comes from and work from that!
    This will probably be my approach, Im definitely going to give this a go. Thanks
    Nobody is guaranteed tomorrow.....


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  • Flink_PoydFlink_Poyd Frets: 2490
    spark240 said:
    Just listened to your ideas, thing is,,,,are you looking to compete a song.....or what people think is a good song?....it’s 2 different things completely !

    just take any existing. Song that you like, and build bars to the same structure, you can’t go far wrong initially.

    also, listen to all the ideas posted in ROTM etc , which ones do you think are good and why ?

    ive taken lots of ideas from those entries I can tell you .

    i notice the few you posted seem a little melancholy at the moment, that may Well Be the vibe you want, but these can be bought to life with some nice guitar Melodie riffs,
    Id like to complete a song, I know theyre never really finished but just to get something complete would be an achievement. I used to make electronic music every now and again, never completed one track!

     Melancholy. Im not one of those people bursting at the seams with positivity every single day so I tend to sway towards the dark side.....

    Where do you start? With a drumbeat then lay guitars over it? 
    Pretty much, yes.

    The drumbeat nails the tempo and basic *feel*. It also frees the guitar/bass/keyboard/horn from having to suggest the underlying tempo. 

    What determines the length of the verse/chorus etc?
    Short answer - the quantity of words that need singing. 

    Generally speaking, if you are creating repetitive chord sequences, you will reach a point when the moment feels right for a change of key or to move to a different chord sequence. 

    Occasionally, a song's lyrics are so compelling that it is possible to get away with one chord sequence for the duration of the entire composition. 
    At the minute lyrics arent on the radar but its something Id love to add at some point.


    Thanks all, theres been the usual mix of confusion and good advice that comes with posting on the internet but I think theres stuff I can definitely try and use to get me going.
    Nobody is guaranteed tomorrow.....


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  • RockerRocker Frets: 4942
    spark240 said:
    Just listened to your ideas, thing is,,,,are you looking to compete a song.....or what people think is a good song?....it’s 2 different things completely !

    just take any existing. Song that you like, and build bars to the same structure, you can’t go far wrong initially.

    also, listen to all the ideas posted in ROTM etc , which ones do you think are good and why ?

    ive taken lots of ideas from those entries I can tell you .

    i notice the few you posted seem a little melancholy at the moment, that may Well Be the vibe you want, but these can be bought to life with some nice guitar Melodie riffs,
    Id like to complete a song, I know theyre never really finished but just to get something complete would be an achievement. I used to make electronic music every now and again, never completed one track!

     Melancholy. Im not one of those people bursting at the seams with positivity every single day so I tend to sway towards the dark side.....

    Where do you start? With a drumbeat then lay guitars over it? 
    Pretty much, yes.

    The drumbeat nails the tempo and basic *feel*. It also frees the guitar/bass/keyboard/horn from having to suggest the underlying tempo. 

    What determines the length of the verse/chorus etc?
    Short answer - the quantity of words that need singing. 

    Generally speaking, if you are creating repetitive chord sequences, you will reach a point when the moment feels right for a change of key or to move to a different chord sequence. 

    Occasionally, a song's lyrics are so compelling that it is possible to get away with one chord sequence for the duration of the entire composition. 
    At the minute lyrics arent on the radar but its something Id love to add at some point.


    Thanks all, theres been the usual mix of confusion and good advice that comes with posting on the internet but I think theres stuff I can definitely try and use to get me going.
    Re: your last comment - copy and paste any useful looking hints or thoughts into a Word document. Edit to remove dupes and you end up with a template for song writing that might work for you. At least you will have condensed a lot of suggestions into a manageable document. One that you can add to later if someone says or writes something that can be utilised in that quest. As always, good luck with your projects in the future...
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [Albert Einstein]

    Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

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  • Flink_PoydFlink_Poyd Frets: 2490
    Can I just say

    AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

    thanks
    Nobody is guaranteed tomorrow.....


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  • Hick81Hick81 Frets: 122
    Check out the Song Exploder podcast— songwriters/producers breaking down how they construct and build a song from scratch. 
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  • pintspillerpintspiller Frets: 994
    I haven't written in ages. Sometimes words come first, sometimes music. I used to come up with two progressions and decide whether one is more chorussy than the other.
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  • flying_pieflying_pie Frets: 1806
    Can I just say

    AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

    thanks

    Why not submit something for the current composition challenge?

    You mentioned that you never finish tracks. Perhaps a deadline might help. There's also a theme (albeit it's make your own theme, but still that could help you focus). You've got until the end of May.

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  • Flink_PoydFlink_Poyd Frets: 2490
    Hick81 said:
    Check out the Song Exploder podcast— songwriters/producers breaking down how they construct and build a song from scratch. 
    Thanks. Im just listening to the Weezer one and its a real comfort knowing that its not just me who gets a block.
    Nobody is guaranteed tomorrow.....


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  • pintspillerpintspiller Frets: 994
    Don't force it. The forced ones mostly suck.
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  • Flink_PoydFlink_Poyd Frets: 2490
    OK here for example is a chord progression I like (me on keys BTW)



    But it seems like a weird time signature so Ill struggle with drums as I'll probably have to program them from scratch
    Nobody is guaranteed tomorrow.....


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  • flying_pieflying_pie Frets: 1806
    OK here for example is a chord progression I like (me on keys BTW)



    But it seems like a weird time signature so Ill struggle with drums as I'll probably have to program them from scratch
    Nice.

    It's actually in good old 4/4. It's just you're accenting 

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  • Flink_PoydFlink_Poyd Frets: 2490
    I feel like I'm slowly getting somewhere now. The sticking point is mostly the drums as I can just about blag it on keys. I seem to have fallen down the rabbit hole and found another rabbit hole inside it. It's fun learning new stuff though 
    Nobody is guaranteed tomorrow.....


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