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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 22096
    edited May 2018
    @Hick81 Is your username named after Worcestershire's finest? Moeen was actually a Peter Moores pick (ODI and Test debut in 2014). 

    @sixstringsupplies Duncan Fletcher picked well. Vaughan, Tresco, Simon Jones, all of them had less than stellar county records at the time, and Fletcher picked on the basis that he thought they had the right mentality for Test cricket. Hameed looks like he does but you can't totally overlook form. Averaging single digits in the CC whilst Keaton Jennings has been scoring runs at the top of the Lancashire order isn't great: ending up in the 2nds even less so. 

    One problem with central contracts is captaincy at Test level. If a player doesn't get much county cricket, how can they gain county captaincy experience with a view to future Test captaincy? It seems through captaining the Lions. MV wasn't Yorkshire skipper if Mr Brain is working right...



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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 24601
    Why the Pakistani cricket team is better than England .. :-)




    Remember, it's easier to criticise than create!
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  • Hick81Hick81 Frets: 122
    Fretwired said:
    Why the Pakistani cricket team is better than England .. :-)



    At least he got a dignified send off 
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  • axisusaxisus Frets: 28280
    The England team will definitely be better next test. They have just signed my mum.
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 22096
    edited May 2018
    Michael Vaughan out with the shite again...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/44285242

    "They just keep going with the same old every single week. This is just a think tank to drop Broad or James Anderson, and I hope people within the team and the management think 'could it make a just a little difference?' You never know.

    "Are they winning with them at the moment? Are they bowling as well as they were three of four years ago? No. Should Chris Woakes be in the side? Well, he has a great record in English conditions."


    1. Are they bowling as well as they were three or four years ago? 

    -From Jan 1st 2017 to the present day, James Anderson had 68 wickets in 15 Tests at 19.46. This is against a career average of 27.34. So the answer to MV there is: no, Jimmy isn't bowling as well as he was three or four years ago, he's bowling fucking better. 


    -From Jan 1st 2017 to the present day, Stuart Broad took 43 wickets in 15 Tests at 34. This is a bit more than his career average. So maybe there is a case for dropping him but it would be somewhat harsh after a good performance in New Zealand. 


    2. Should Chris Woakes be in the side? Well, he has a great record in English conditions."

    -In 11 Tests, Woakes has 42 wickets at 24.28.

    By comparison, Anderson in 77 Tests has 339 wickets at 24.28. So no, you're not dropping Jimmy Anderson for Chris Woakes.  

    So what about Broad? 253 wickets in 65 Tests at 27 is hardly shabby. But maybe we should just drop him anyway to appease Yorkshire's non-Yorkshire born finest and bring Chris Woakes in. He's in good form.. isn't he? Presumably MV has overlooked the Woakes record from Jan 1st 2017 to now: 6 Tests, 12 wickets at 60.33.

    So let's get this straight: we have two innings failures with the bat, being saved partly in the second by a young guy on debut, and MV's solution is to drop one or both of our experienced guys, and entrust the attack to Mark Wood (potential but shitty injury record) and Chris Woakes, who bowled absolute fucking pies over the summer.

    MV's been spending too much time around Gary Neville and has picked up a horrible case of twonkitis.   





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  • scrumhalfscrumhalf Frets: 11262
    Vaughan has an amazing ability to talk common sense and utter bollocks in almost equal measure.

    His in-play analysis is quite good, but if we let him loose running the game it would be all over the place.
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 14029
    tFB Trader
    Amazing stats in a game we need to win - we have not taken 20 wickets in a match for over 10 matches
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11411
    Amazing stats in a game we need to win - we have not taken 20 wickets in a match for over 10 matches
    Thre are problems with the bowling, but it hasn't helped that the batsmen have played so badly that a lot of the time they are losing by an innings.  They don't have the opportunity to take 20 wickets - although in some cases, they are conceding too big a total in the first innings which contributes to the lack of a second innings.

    The other problem is that we just don't have a good spinner.  The fast bowling would probably be adequate if we had a Graeme Swann.

    Leach looked ok when he played - he might be able to perform a Nathan Lyon type role long term.  That would be an improvement on Moeen.
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  • scrumhalfscrumhalf Frets: 11262
    Lunch on first day, and it's been a much better session.
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11411
    Why does Broad always wait until people are talking about his place in the side to bowl well?
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 22096
    If you look at his series averages over the years, he doesn't often have a stinker. He did have a shit time in Australia and came back from it in NZ. For some reason, he's been the one to attract more criticism than most of the other bowlers when his form is down a bit. When he had knee surgery, it took a while to come back from, not unusual given the nature of that injury. He came back for the World Cup, wasn't match fit, and got nailed by the press. It was a totally unfair nailing and he's stuck it up to them for the most part since. 

    Prior to this Test, Broad has 117 Tests with 411 wickets at 29.15. His record in the first half compared to the second half:

    First 60 Tests: 201 wickets at 31.56
    Next 58 Tests: 213 wickets at 26.65 (Cricinfo's stats include current Test as of 2.32pm)

    When you look at the home/away record in that 58 Test period, he's been consistent.

    Home - 32 Tests, 125 wickets at 25.57
    Away - 23 Tests, 81 wickets at 28.25 
    (there are also 3 neutral Tests: 7 wickets at 47). 

    I reckon people would have grumbled less about his place in the side if he had a few people around him who stuck around and performed better when/if the form dropped. Look at some of the folk he's been bowling with in the last five years: Woakes, Wood, Finn, Chris Jordan, Bess, Leach, Moeen Ali, Rashid, Liam Dawson. None of them are automatic Test selections and one of them has packed up playing the longer form. 

    Watching Anderson and Broad now brings to mind Ambrose and Walsh coming to the end of their career. Not much quality followed those two. 







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  • GassageGassage Frets: 30825
    Sam Curran does look like a kid that's won a competition to 'join the team for a day' in the Yorks Eve Post.

    *An Official Foo-Approved guitarist since Sept 2023.

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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 14029
    tFB Trader
    Gassage said:
    Sam Curran does look like a kid that's won a competition to 'join the team for a day' in the Yorks Eve Post.
    I know what you mean surely you have to play a longer game with such guys - No use dropping them in the next match as destroys confidence - Wasim Akram was younger on his debut (17 I think and barely a senior game played) and took no effective wickets for about 3 tests - Regardless of this match Broad and Anderson only have a few more tests in them and it is worrying that little obvious candidates behind them waiting in the wings
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11411
    Gassage said:
    Sam Curran does look like a kid that's won a competition to 'join the team for a day' in the Yorks Eve Post.
    I know what you mean surely you have to play a longer game with such guys - No use dropping them in the next match as destroys confidence - Wasim Akram was younger on his debut (17 I think and barely a senior game played) and took no effective wickets for about 3 tests - Regardless of this match Broad and Anderson only have a few more tests in them and it is worrying that little obvious candidates behind them waiting in the wings
    There is some potential, but we will have to wait to see if it develops. 10 years ago I would have laughed at you if you said Broad would get 400 plus test wickets.  He was not that good when he first came into the team.  Hopefully some of the younger bowlers develop.

    Curran is only 19, so if he can add a bit of pace he could be good.  Jamie Overton seems to be fit again (for the moment) so he could come through.  He's always been faster than his brother.

    Steve Finn is still only 29.  If he can get it together, then there may be three or four good years in him.  Ryan Harris didn't make his debut for Australia until he was 30.

    Jofra Archer looks very good but he won't qualify for England until 2022.  Personally, I think he should be playing for the West Indies though.
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  • scrumhalfscrumhalf Frets: 11262
    Sam Curran appears to grunt when he bowls. It's bad enough these days that the stump mics pick up the ceaseless yelling of wicketkeepers at any abll that hits the cut strip, this had to be nipped in the bud.
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  • scrumhalfscrumhalf Frets: 11262
    Bloody typical!

    We're doing reasonably well and it's pissing down.
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 22096
    scrumhalf said:
    Sam Curran appears to grunt when he bowls. It's bad enough these days that the stump mics pick up the ceaseless yelling of wicketkeepers at any abll that hits the cut strip, this had to be nipped in the bud.

    Jon Ayling for Hampshire was bloody awful for the grunt. 



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  • scrumhalfscrumhalf Frets: 11262
    Thankfully the Pakistan keeper hasn't followed in the tradition of Kamran Akmal who used to scream as though he was being impaled on an upturned stump after every delivery.
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 22096
    With the rain seemingly in for the day, let's have a trip down memory lane:

    ""I knew I was under pressure because you can always tell by the press conferences and the questions you're asked. I know people are there to give opinions but I'm pretty sceptical [of the criticism]. Apparently Michael Atherton had a go at me but I've not read that one. Jonathan Agnew was another giving me loads and I said to him, 'Aggers, come back in five days when I've got 0 and 0 and we've lost and ask me your questions then.' Obviously some people thought I put myself up too early for the team but that's irrelevant now."

    And...

    "I'm not an arrogant guy - everyone knows that. People are just trying to make me out as . . ." He shrugs. "Sometimes there's a bit of . . . not jealousy . . . but when you do well you have to understand that the better you do the more hated you are. I understand that. Look at Nick Faldo at his peak - he was hated all the way through. I'm not saying I'm Nick Faldo but everyone who does well in this country always get slated."

    Yes, it's Michael Vaughan in 2007 responding with a bit of snark to some press criticism. Oh how times change...





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  • sixstringsuppliessixstringsupplies Frets: 429
    tFB Trader
    I like the look of Sam Curran thought he bowled really well.

    its no coincidence that our world class players (or former/near recent world class players) ie. Cook, Root, Broad and Anderson all made their debuts at a relatively young age.

    get them in and let them develop. 

    Curran will add more pace as he gets older.

    I agree with Michael Vaughan. Criticism of Broad is a little harsh but Broad shouldn’t come out after taking 3 wickets on a green, seaming wicket in May (ok it was June 1st) and say its unjustified. Win the match first...

    If Broad had played in the 90’s he would have been dropped years ago. I think he’s a great bowler. I hope he plays for another 4 years or so and breaks jimmy Anderson’s wicket record. Maybe his problem is he has never had the opportunity to “lead” the attack. For someone who didn’t start bowling until his late teens and played for England a couple of years later....

    @heartfeltdawn I enjoy your cricket knowledge. Despite being a guitar forum, I find myself in the cricket thread more than others!
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