What started out as a simple refret....

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IvisonGuitarsIvisonGuitars Frets: 6838
in Making & Modding tFB Trader
....has turned into a full on headstock repair.

So Wednesday, I decided to give my beloved J45 an overdue refret. All was going well...started pulling the frets, almost no chipping at all. Very pleased. Cleaned up the slots, lined up the first new fret, first tap with the hammer and....



***BIG SIGH***

So, I thought 'F*ck It' and carried on with the full refret....so much easier with a missing headstock!! :)



Anyway, The headstock had been broken twice before, I'd had it repaired and had lasted 3 years then it had failed again and I glued it up about 18 months ago (intending to tidy it up at some point) and it had started to creep again only for the joint to fail on Wednesday.

So a more substantial fix is now in order. I re-glued the break and left it 24 hours:



Removing the clamps this morning, we're here:



I don't like splines. I think they look ugly and they take out too much 'good' wood IMO. So i'm going for a 'backstrap' this time.

Squeeky bum time, I take my prized acoustic guitar over to the belt sander and take 3mm off the back of the headstock. The white masking tape gives me a depth stop and the blue masking tape gives me a point to stop at just behind the first fret:



The repaired joint can be seen here, I'm pleased with how well it has knitted together:



So, I thickness a new piece of mahogany to about 6mm and spend the next 2 1/2 hours insuring a perfectly tight fit...What a pain in the 'arris!!

I'm going to make the headstock slightly thicker (about 16mm in total) and leave some more meat at the back of the truss rod route too.



So both faces are now glued up and set in clamps for the next 24 hours....



More Sunday...










 
http://www.ivisonguitars.com
(formerly miserneil)
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Comments

  • Adam_MDAdam_MD Frets: 3420
    Wow thanks for posting this.  Sorry it came off in the first place but I do enjoy this kind of thread.  
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  • Winny_PoohWinny_Pooh Frets: 7732
    edited June 2018
    Looking great so far, is the patch grain running in the opposite direction? 
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  • IvisonGuitarsIvisonGuitars Frets: 6838
    tFB Trader
    Looking great so far, is the patch grain running in the opposite direction? 
    The backstrap grain runs parallel to the headstock face.
    http://www.ivisonguitars.com
    (formerly miserneil)
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  • GoldenEraGuitarsGoldenEraGuitars Frets: 8820
    tFB Trader
    @miserneil hats off to you, sir. Fantastic job, sorry that this happened but you seem to know what you’re doing. 
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  • SeshSesh Frets: 1839
    If you only signed you're a better man than me. I'd have gone terminal Basil Fawlty.
    Can't sing, can't dance, can handle a guitar a little.
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  • sweepysweepy Frets: 4159
    Yet another reason to buy a fret press and leave the hammer for throwing at cats ;)
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  • IvisonGuitarsIvisonGuitars Frets: 6838
    tFB Trader
    sweepy said:
    Yet another reason to buy a fret press and leave the hammer for throwing at cats ;)
    Yeah, I won’t disagree.

    Funnily enough, I did go to order a 12” fret caul on Monday but they were out of stock...
    http://www.ivisonguitars.com
    (formerly miserneil)
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  • mrkbmrkb Frets: 6637
    Wow, are you sure it wouldn’t have just polished out ;-)
    Karma......
    Ebay mark7777_1
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    It’s a good thing it came off now. It was clearly so weak that under string tension, the smallest knock would have probably been enough - usually when least convenient...

    That’s certainly a bold way to fix it, but given the existing damage you really aren’t taking away much ‘good’ wood.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • IvisonGuitarsIvisonGuitars Frets: 6838
    edited June 2018 tFB Trader
    ICBM said:
    It’s a good thing it came off now. It was clearly so weak that under string tension, the smallest knock would have probably been enough - usually when least convenient...

    That’s certainly a bold way to fix it, but given the existing damage you really aren’t taking away much ‘good’ wood.
    The second time it came off was in the case, it had obviously been knocked on the load in, typically it was at a quite prestigious award ceremony at a local golf club. I had set up the PA in the day, and gone back later, with the proviso that I would strike up straight after the final award. 10 minutes to go, I quietly open the case to tune up and find it in 2 pieces....

    Bold perhaps but ultimately the best option I feel. I’m going to try and go for an invisible fix, just to see if I can more than anything.
    http://www.ivisonguitars.com
    (formerly miserneil)
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  • WezVWezV Frets: 16546
    it’s the right fix at this point.  So much more pleasing than the usual splints.

    it will look good even if you don’t get it invisible 
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  • IvisonGuitarsIvisonGuitars Frets: 6838
    tFB Trader
    WezV said:
    it’s the right fix at this point.  So much more pleasing than the usual splints.

    it will look good even if you don’t get it invisible 
    Cheers @WezV! ;

    I totally agree regarding splints, every guitar I’ve seen with them I’ve just thought “what a shame” especially when it’s clear some didn’t need them either. Seems to be a ‘70’s’ tradition to me that has continued - bit like putting Schallers on everything! :)

    I did think about inlaying some carbon fibre rods under the overlay too but decided that would be overkill....and I need the guitar for a gig on Wednesday anyway so this needs to keep moving ASAP! 
    http://www.ivisonguitars.com
    (formerly miserneil)
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  • WezVWezV Frets: 16546
    Well if it does ever break again, you still have the CF option.  But I think your fix should be more than enough.

    have you considered a volute right over the break.  It’s debatable how much strength they add to a neck normally, but in this case I think it would give support right where you need it
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  • IvisonGuitarsIvisonGuitars Frets: 6838
    tFB Trader
    WezV said:
    Well if it does ever break again, you still have the CF option.  But I think your fix should be more than enough.

    have you considered a volute right over the break.  It’s debatable how much strength they add to a neck normally, but in this case I think it would give support right where you need it
    Well, again the term ‘volute’ Sends me into a cold sweat think of Norlin era Gibson’s...but you’re totally right of course. I’m going to do something similar over the break but try and blend it in a little more than a standard volute, I currently have about 20mm of material right over the break point and back of the truss rod route and I’m intending to leave as much of that in as I can whilst still retaining the ‘classic’ look.
    http://www.ivisonguitars.com
    (formerly miserneil)
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    A lot of 50s Gibsons are noticeably more 'flared' before you get to the nut, as I'm sure you've noticed - that makes them a lot stronger than the almost (and in some cases actually!) 'dished' shape on many modern ones, which removes a quite surprising amount of wood right at the weakest point.

    The most flared one I've ever seen was my old '57 LP Junior, which not only had that but wood grain that almost followed the curve of the head - and even though the end of the headstock looked like it had been used to dig roads with, it had never been broken. So I think a combination of as much flare as you can get away with without it feeling odd, and the grain of the new piece being parallel to the head, and it should be pretty strong.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • WezVWezV Frets: 16546
    miserneil said:
    WezV said:
    Well if it does ever break again, you still have the CF option.  But I think your fix should be more than enough.

    have you considered a volute right over the break.  It’s debatable how much strength they add to a neck normally, but in this case I think it would give support right where you need it
    Well, again the term ‘volute’ Sends me into a cold sweat think of Norlin era Gibson’s...but you’re totally right of course. I’m going to do something similar over the break but try and blend it in a little more than a standard volute, I currently have about 20mm of material right over the break point and back of the truss rod route and I’m intending to leave as much of that in as I can whilst still retaining the ‘classic’ look.
    I understand the reservation but I wouldn’t ever consider a blended in volute as you end up with a shapeless lump just like the worst of the Norlin era.

    a well defined volute is a thing of beauty... but still not necessarily the right choice for this guitar.

    if you carve one in and don’t like it you can always carve it away again ;)






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  • IvisonGuitarsIvisonGuitars Frets: 6838
    tFB Trader
    WezV said:
    miserneil said:
    WezV said:
    Well if it does ever break again, you still have the CF option.  But I think your fix should be more than enough.

    have you considered a volute right over the break.  It’s debatable how much strength they add to a neck normally, but in this case I think it would give support right where you need it
    Well, again the term ‘volute’ Sends me into a cold sweat think of Norlin era Gibson’s...but you’re totally right of course. I’m going to do something similar over the break but try and blend it in a little more than a standard volute, I currently have about 20mm of material right over the break point and back of the truss rod route and I’m intending to leave as much of that in as I can whilst still retaining the ‘classic’ look.
    I understand the reservation but I wouldn’t ever consider a blended in volute as you end up with a shapeless lump just like the worst of the Norlin era.

    a well defined volute is a thing of beauty... but still not necessarily the right choice for this guitar.

    if you carve one in and don’t like it you can always carve it away again ;)






    Haha! Yes, you’re right, I don’t want it to end up looking like a growth! I think what I’m trying to say is I’m going to try an leave as much meat behind there as possible without it looking obvious. I’m aiming for about 16mm final thickness of the headstock but if I can get away with a mm or 2 more, I’ll definitey do it.
    http://www.ivisonguitars.com
    (formerly miserneil)
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    edited June 2018
    Are you going to taper it like a vintage one as well?

    I just found this pic, it's of a 1948 J50 - not only is there the taper, but look at the amount of flare behind the nut! It's not quite a volute, but it's not far off...

    photo HeadstocktaperA.jpg

    This pic also shows the difference between the vintage 'flare' and the modern 'dish' - although neither are extreme examples, there's still a fair difference in the depth of wood under the nut.

    http://magazine.dv247.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/les-paul-junior-headstock.jpg

    (I'm sure miserneil knows this .)

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • IvisonGuitarsIvisonGuitars Frets: 6838
    tFB Trader
    ICBM said:
    Are you going to taper it like a vintage one as well?

    I just found this pic, it's of a 1948 J50 - not only is there the taper, but look at the amount of flare behind the nut! It's not quite a volute, but it's not far off...

    photo HeadstocktaperA.jpg

    This pic also shows the difference between the vintage 'flare' and the modern 'dish' - although neither are extreme examples, there's still a fair difference in the depth of wood under the nut.

    http://magazine.dv247.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/les-paul-junior-headstock.jpg

    (I'm sure miserneil knows this .)
    Thanks for this @ICBM, I’d got the measurements from a couple of 50’s LP’s so I usually work to that but I’d not seen that comparison photo before! That’s a substantial amount of wood removed on the modern guitar, I had no idea they were as thin as that! :open_mouth: 
    http://www.ivisonguitars.com
    (formerly miserneil)
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    miserneil said:

    Thanks for this @ICBM, I’d got the measurements from a couple of 50’s LP’s so I usually work to that but I’d not seen that comparison photo before! That’s a substantial amount of wood removed on the modern guitar, I had no idea they were as thin as that! :open_mouth: 
    Yes - and as you'll know, it's right in the worst possible place directly under the truss rod cavity. I've even seen ones where whoever was on the belt-sander has got carried away and they're actually slightly *concave* there - the back of the neck must be wafer-thin.

    On my Junior, it was more like a straight line between the end of the E tuners and the back of the neck under the 1st fret!

    I admit I do harp on about the fragility of modern Gibsons, but I have to say I have a reason for it :).

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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