Mic for studio - singing and acoustic playing

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vizviz Frets: 10643
edited June 2018 in Studio & Recording
what mic would you recommend? I was thinking an SE condenser mic in the room, like a 2200 or 3300; or should it be a couple of directional mics for vocal and guitar?
Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • rossyamaharossyamaha Frets: 2439
    The SE stuff is great. I've used most of them over the years and recorded some of my first demos with a 2200. Recently picked up an ADK A6 which is fantastic. A lot more detail than the SE. 

    I play guitar and take photos of stuff. I also like beans on toast.

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  • digitalscreamdigitalscream Frets: 26450
    How well-treated is the room? If it's got a lot of echo (particularly in the high frequencies), then a single mic in the room is probably not going to sound right.

    Close mics would be my preferred option there; for a low-ish budget, I'd be tempted to grab an SE2000 for about £50-odd and maybe an AKG C1000S for the guitar (especially if you can find one with the additional inserts for different polar patterns).
    <space for hire>
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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    How well-treated is the room? If it's got a lot of echo (particularly in the high frequencies), then a single mic in the room is probably not going to sound right.

    This.

    Condensors will pick up the room much more than a dynamic so make your choice accordingly.

    A good dynamic vocal mic would be the Shure SM7b.
    An excellent acoustic guitar mic would be a Josephson C42.
    I suspect these might be over budget new.

    If you want one mic to do it all then a Rose NT1 would be worth considering.
    SE do some decent options too,.

    Consider buying a better mic used though.
    I paid £300 for one of my (4) Josephson C42's.
    They are a terrific microphone and I can use them on just about anything. 
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  • CirrusCirrus Frets: 8481
    I'm in the school of thought that a good dynamic is often more useful than an equivalently priced condenser, because they're less prone to rumble, handling noise, are often flatter across the frequency ranges that matter in practice (how much 17kHz do you need?), and have less distortions and resonances. That makes them easier to EQ after the fact without things getting screwy.

    So a lot of the time, for vocals and acoustic guitar, I'd rather have an Electrovoice RE20 or some other good dynamic than a sub-£500 condenser. I appreciate you might be skeptical that a mic like an RE20 would work on an acoustic guitar, but it's one of my go-tos - it's a great all-rounder.

    The other complicating factor is the only way to find out what works best for your voice is to use a bunch of different mics in anger and see. If you're buying blind... in my experience a good dynamic will sound at least ok on pretty much everyone, whereas a condenser might be perfect or totally wrong for a voice, again because of those distortions and resonances that are pretty much inherent in the design. Where they fall and how they interact with your voice might make it sound larger than life, expensive and rich... or might make it chesty, hard, sibilant or edgy.
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  • vizviz Frets: 10643
    EXCELLENT info - thanks chaps!
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • duotoneduotone Frets: 971
    edited June 2018
    Have heard good things mentioned about https://www.lewitt-audio.com/ but have never tried them myself, has anyone here used them?
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  • Winny_PoohWinny_Pooh Frets: 7730
    edited June 2018
    total budget?
    Acoustis or electric guitars?
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  • vizviz Frets: 10643
    Acoustic guitar. I was thinking about 200 quid initially (2nd hand) but might go up a bit. 
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    Audio Technica AT4040 could be had for that if buying used.

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  • vizviz Frets: 10643
    octatonic said:
    Audio Technica AT4040 could be had for that if buying used.

    Can’t find one at the mo - but I’m meant to be going for 2 dynamics aren’t I?
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • digitalkettledigitalkettle Frets: 3124
    Close mics would be my preferred option there; for a low-ish budget, I'd be tempted to grab an SE2000 for about £50-odd and maybe an AKG C1000S for the guitar (especially if you can find one with the additional inserts for different polar patterns).
    Got a C1000S available if you’re interested...got the box so whatever came with it is in there (inserts ring a bell).
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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    viz said:
    octatonic said:
    Audio Technica AT4040 could be had for that if buying used.

    Can’t find one at the mo - but I’m meant to be going for 2 dynamics aren’t I?
    Well, it is up to you.
    One condenser and some self-build bass traps might cost about the same.
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  • vizviz Frets: 10643
    I’m getting more confused. So firstly I thought I’d get a condenser - I have an SE-X1 which is nothing special, so thought I’d get a better one - it’s for my daughter; and Rossy supported that, then DS and you  mentioned the echoey room and rumble etc. So then I thought I needed close mics, one for her vocals (SM58) and one for her guitar?
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    Either will work but there is always a trade off.

    Dynamics have proximity effect being more noticeable.
    Condensors have less of a proximity effect but will pick up more of the room.

    Nothing will sound bad, unless you go absolute bargain basement.

    The SE-X1 is a decent mic.
    Compared to 20 years ago it is much harder to buy a bad microphone, pretty much everything available is ok to good.
    You still have to spend a lot of money to get 'great'.
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  • prowlaprowla Frets: 4896

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  • meltedbuzzboxmeltedbuzzbox Frets: 10337
    octatonic said:
    Audio Technica AT4040 could be had for that if buying used.

    That's my mic.

    I love it!
    The Bigsby was the first successful design of what is now called a whammy bar or tremolo arm, although vibrato is the technically correct term for the musical effect it produces. In standard usage, tremolo is a rapid fluctuation of the volume of a note, while vibrato is a fluctuation in pitch. The origin of this nonstandard usage of the term by electric guitarists is attributed to Leo Fender, who also used the term “vibrato” to refer to what is really a tremolo effect.
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  • Winny_PoohWinny_Pooh Frets: 7730
    The Aston origin is decent by accounts. if you dont mind the hassle of a tube mic w power supply etc then a used SE Z5300 (can be a bit bright). Se2200 is too bland IMO, rather prefer a Senn md421.
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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    The Aston origin is decent by accounts. if you dont mind the hassle of a tube mic w power supply etc then a used SE Z5300 (can be a bit bright). Se2200 is too bland IMO, rather prefer a Senn md421.
    Origin is great for the money.
    I'd suggest going for the Spirit instead- for an extra hundred £ you get multi-pattern.
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  • vizviz Frets: 10643
    Ok good stuff, so final question, if we get a condenser to sing into, will it pick up the guitar from below?
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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