Depressed with my live sound and Amp rig again. Maybe I need to downsize .

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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    edited June 2018
    Hattigol said:
    It's not so much 'why downsize' as 'why have something so unnecessarily big in the first place'?
    Because they sound better than small amps to some people, even at low volume. I know some other people just don't understand this.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • John_AJohn_A Frets: 3775
    ICBM said:
    Hattigol said:
    It's not so much 'why downsize' as 'why have something so unnecessarily big in the first place'?
    Because they sound better than small amps to some people, even at low volume. I know some other people just don't understand this.
    Don't think a JCM800 falls in to this category.  They don't need to be up past 3 ot 4 to sound great, but that's certainly too loud for a small gig with most bands IMO, certainly for a controlled sound for the band mix when the guitars in the PA as well
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    John_A said:

    Don't think a JCM800 falls in to this category.  They don't need to be up past 3 ot 4 to sound great, but that's certainly too loud for a small gig with most bands IMO, certainly for a controlled sound for the band mix when the guitars in the PA as well
    Exactly, so you need to control it with an attenuator.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • John_AJohn_A Frets: 3775
    ICBM said:
    John_A said:

    Don't think a JCM800 falls in to this category.  They don't need to be up past 3 ot 4 to sound great, but that's certainly too loud for a small gig with most bands IMO, certainly for a controlled sound for the band mix when the guitars in the PA as well
    Exactly, so you need to control it with an attenuator.
    Certainly an option.  Used to run mine with a powerbrake. Today, there are smaller, lighter and easier ways that sound just as good IMO.  Loved mine though, great sounding amps
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  • zepp76zepp76 Frets: 2534
    John_A said:
    ICBM said:
    John_A said:

    Don't think a JCM800 falls in to this category.  They don't need to be up past 3 ot 4 to sound great, but that's certainly too loud for a small gig with most bands IMO, certainly for a controlled sound for the band mix when the guitars in the PA as well
    Exactly, so you need to control it with an attenuator.
    Certainly an option.  Used to run mine with a powerbrake. Today, there are smaller, lighter and easier ways that sound just as good IMO.  Loved mine though, great sounding amps

    How would you rate the Powerbrake? Was there much tone suck while using it?
    Tomorrow will be a good day.
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  • John_AJohn_A Frets: 3775
    @zepp76 for knocking a cooking Marshall down from 'far too loud' to 'perfect for a smallish gig' levels it's brilliant. Basically the quieter you want it to go the worse it gets, so betdroom levels are not perfect, it's still good but just not as good.  


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  • KDSKDS Frets: 220
    I have Cornell 18/20 for sale, if you are ever in north Devon you are welcome to come and try it.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    edited June 2018
    zepp76 said:

    How would you rate the Powerbrake? Was there much tone suck while using it?
    The Powerbrake is excellent. It doesn’t noticeably affect the tone until it’s down to about halfway, which is a long way down in volume terms - certainly low enough to make a 2203 usable at a gig.

    The trick is not to just crank the amp right up - use both the attenuator and the amp’s master volume together. Set the attenuator to roughly the right volume first then dial the amp in for that volume, not the other way round.

    On the Powerbrake, each click is a 3dB reduction, even though they're not marked. So just one click halves the effective power of the amp, two clicks is a quarter of the power etc. Even with a 100W amp, using it as if it's a 12W amp is only three clicks down.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • riffpowersriffpowers Frets: 344
    I have a friend who has the jcm900
    mkiii 50 watt head you mentioned above , I might ask him to borrow it so I can see what it’s like. 
    Whats a good speaker for it ??
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    I have a friend who has the jcm900
    mkiii 50 watt head you mentioned above , I might ask him to borrow it so I can see what it’s like. 
    Whats a good speaker for it ??
    V30 or one of the Creamback models, or a G12-65 or G12-80. Not bad with a Classic Lead but it brings out the fizz/buzz a bit much, like the G12T-75 does. Still OK to try it with any of them though.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • John_AJohn_A Frets: 3775
    edited June 2018
    The JCM900 will have the same 'too loud' issues as the 800, only it won't sound as good.

    Do us all a favour and buy a small amp or modeller, or get an attenuator and live with the weight and hassle
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  • You really need to try a Cornford Roadhouse 30. It’s got the gain boost you need and it’s got an effects loop, so with something like a spark boost Mini running in the loop you can get the volume boost you need for solos.
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  • DominicDominic Frets: 16012
    Attenuator for sure
    If not Friedman DSmini or similar and 2x12 cab
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  • supessupes Frets: 179
    Just a suggestion, but i had my Jcm800 modded to give it a built-in foot switchable boost. So normal rythym playing the volume is cut, stand on the pedal and it takes it back to proper volume giving it a lead volume boost (adjustable). 
    If you’re only going to be happy with a Jcm800 sound, this might be ideal for you. 
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  • hywelghywelg Frets: 4302
    Not sure what the anode voltages are on the 2203/4 but I put 6V6's in my 1987 (actually the Russian Mil 6P6S/6Π6C).  @ICBM will know. Needs rebiasing. Allowed the amp  to breath a little better. Subtle change of tone and earlier breakup. But I could turn it up. 
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  • TTBZTTBZ Frets: 2873
    Digital is certainly an option! I've seen lots of big bands using digital (kemper and axefx mainly) and they sound awesome out the front, nobody can tell it's digital. It sounds and feels weird on stage though especially if they're using iem as all you can hear is drums.
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  • photekphotek Frets: 1462
    supes said:
    Just a suggestion, but i had my Jcm800 modded to give it a built-in foot switchable boost. So normal rythym playing the volume is cut, stand on the pedal and it takes it back to proper volume giving it a lead volume boost (adjustable). 
    If you’re only going to be happy with a Jcm800 sound, this might be ideal for you. 
    This is pretty much what the HBE Detox and Greenhouse Effect Middle Man Boost achieve but without having to mod the amp. I have mentioned to the OP in another thread about the pedal but this vid gives a good idea of what it can do but obviously you don't have to have it with as much gain cut in the video when engaged.


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  • rawk100rawk100 Frets: 1757
    My JCM900 50W SLX sounds good at low volumes and this is compared to the JCM2000 DSL, JCM900 dual reverb and JCM800 I used to own.
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  • riffpowersriffpowers Frets: 344
    rawk100 said:
    My JCM900 50W SLX sounds good at low volumes and this is compared to the JCM2000 DSL, JCM900 dual reverb and JCM800 I used to own.
    Thanks !! In my experience the JCM800's seem to have most of their volume before 4 on the dial!!
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    riffpowers said:

    In my experience the JCM800's seem to have most of their volume before 4 on the dial!!
    If you think the 800s are bad, try an early-70s non-MV amp - they can reach full power before clipping at only about 2 on the dial, not helped by the over-large treble cap on the pot, which also makes them very harsh until the rest of the tone response catches up. The 2203/4 usually reaches full power at about 6, with the preamp gain up all the way.

    The 'taper' (which covers some aspects of the circuit gain as well as the actual pot taper itself) is responsible for a lot of the problems of amps being 'too loud'. No amp with a volume control is actually 'too loud', it's just that it can be difficult to set it precisely enough and at the same time as sounding good, since the way the pot interacts with the rest of the circuit can affect the tone.

    The JCM900s actually avoid this to some extent because their master volumes are rather unusual, and work by controlling gain in a switchable IC stage, independent of the valve circuit. Unfortunately they negated some the benefit of this by using terrible quality pots with a very non-smooth resistance track. But you may still find them more controllable than the 800, even without using the 25W 'Low' power (triode) mode, which doesn't sound as good, in my opinion.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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